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Answers '16+ Duke Tuning / Ignition Timing / Exhaust / PCV

16K views 46 replies 11 participants last post by  mraelfwine 
#1 ·
I know this could be shared in other threads, but thought I'd make it more easy to search.

1. The Duke 690 PCV (part # 18016) DOES fit on the 2017 Duke. I think mine is either the first, or one of the first '17 Duke to have one, as when I made my purchase, 5 different shops and Dynoworks said that it hadn't yet been confirmed if it would fit on the '17. I got impatient and bought it, and it fits. I've called Dynoworks to let them know it does.

2. I just had a good long conversation with Mark at Factory Pro. For those who don't know, Factory Pro is generally considered one of the leading tuning shops in America, and make all kinds of goodies like the 690 Shift Kit.

Interesting points that came out of this conversation:
- They just had a 2017 Husky 701 SM in (i.e. same engine) for tuning, and were able to get 6-7 more HP out of it
- He said they had a spend a really long time dialing in the ignition timing, and found that it needs to be sped up a significant (relative) amount. He did say that while with some PCV's ignition timing can't be tuned, but in this case it CAN. I believe that goes against a lot of what is said here.


Personally, I find this really exciting, and will be heading up there soon to throw my money at them.
 
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#2 · (Edited)
I wonder if that 701 SM saw so much improvement with only a PCV, or if there was more like a cam or intake/exhaust upgrades.

If it's with only a PCV, that's nuts.

EDIT: Ok I spoke with them and the 701 has exhaust and intake mods when it came in, the 7 HP gain was realized by improving mapping and timing on top of those mods. Nice!

He also convinced me that autotune isn't needed even for my use case (travelling to different regions with the bike) because the ECU can correct for temp and altitude changes and it will continue to run well regardless of those variables if it has a well tuned map on it.

Also regarding airbox mods, he had no worries about cutting up the airbox and riding in the rain. Assuming you're only introducing filtered air into the engine then it should be fine. Water won't get sucked in. That settles it, I'll be buying a spare airbox off eBay and chopping it up.
 
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#4 ·
Ah - good to know. Thanks for the followup. I'm committed to going to Factory Pro to get a map, hopefully can replicate the results of that Husky. I've already got the full Arrow + PCV, and am ordering DNA S1 + S2 tomorrow. Once I get it done I'll let you know the results - unless you get there first :thumbup1:

Also good to get the confirmation about the Autotune.
 
#5 ·
- He said they had a spend a really long time dialing in the ignition timing, and found that it needs to be sped up a significant (relative) amount.
I think if the PC5 didnt have spark tune(newer models) the company would be going backwards.
I think its a very important feature if your bike is airbox/exhaust modded/custom maps.
I think you can get a little punch back in the lower-end rev while keeping your top-end money mods.

Thanks for sharing.
 
#10 ·
Sounds about right. I dynoed at 67 hp at 1 mile high here in Denver, with a '16, SAS delete, PC5, Remus Hexacone underbelly and DNA S2. Fueling is great throughout the rev range, should be about 75 and a monster at sea level.

I'm still down for the big piston kit if that ever gets off the ground...
 
#15 ·
I haven't heard of anyone already making one. A local racer "has some guy in california" making some kit engine parts for him, including a cam.

I'm not going to do any of that. I put the full tuning kit and KTM map on it and I'll call it good. I'm getting it dynoed at Boulder Motor Sports right now. I'm hoping the map is somewhat ok, and I'll get an idea of what gearing to use for Pikes Peak.
 
#17 ·
Sorry to bring up a dead thread. Just got back from ignition+fuel tune from factory pro with marc. I have similar results as you gokes. My setup is a little different where I have remus slip on and LV decat. KN airfilter and DNA S2 cover. I do have Kev's o2 controller + PCV. Bottom end from 3k-5k felt a lot more kick then before. 5k-7k is still similar as original just with more smooth power delivery and same with the rest of the rev range. I feel as I can easily throttle out of corners much more reliably on my bike.

http://imgur.com/sjDFuDI

PS when I bought my PCV, the site(fuelmoto) supposedly had a map to my setup I listed so this baseline isn't really a good one to determine how much more of a change.
 
#29 · (Edited)
Hmmmm.
Are all of you actually talking about the latest model Duke 690 (2016 and 2017)?
Mine is a stock 2016 R with Remus exhaust.
No kev o2.
No pc.
No air box or filter mods (yet) and it pulls clean from 3000rpm up.
I don't ride with the revs that low often but with the Remus being so LOUD I kind tone it down a bit in slow traffic and in the city meaning low revs for less bleeding ear drums for others.
No stutter or bogging in low revs thou.
It's loads better than my previous Duke.
Only on the "sport" mode is the throttle response a bit twitchy at times but "road" mode seams pretty perfect.
And that link from Cors to a performance cam isn't for the "new" engine.
 
#30 · (Edited)
#31 ·
Snowy , have you seen this old article
http://www.monomaniacs.nl/tnt/KTM/Brisk-spark-plugs

Brisk plugs are well known as a cure for the dreaded "Konstantfahrruckelen" from fuel injected BMW boxers. A thing that even BMW wasn't able to solve for years. Free translated this means constant speed jerking, a thing that drives a lot of boxer owners nuts.
The absence of the mass electrode allows the central electrode to be put deeper in the combustion chamber. The sparks occur between the central electrode and the lighter coloured small band, halfway the isolator towards the thread (see picture). It's not squeezed between the central and mass electrode but 'out the open'. This construction allows - or is even aimed at - sparks to jump over at 360 degrees around the central electrode. The first and strongest spark will jump where the mixture is the most dense and rich because it has the lowest resistance. So it kinda seeks out the best point to spark automatically. Clever huh?...
The improvement is clear straight away. The KTM SMC 660 already is a good starter but now you hardly have to use the choke either. With the stock plug you had to ride a few hundred meters before closing the choke to avoid the risk of stalling the engine. With the Brisk you can close the choke right after firing up and just take off. Then the improvement continues and builds. The engine spins smoother, vibrates less and there is less chain-snatching in traffic. It pulls stronger throughout the rev-range. Most clearly at low and high revs. As a result, acceleration is better and the topspeed is higher. On both our SMC's the Brisks give roughly 10 KM/h more topspeed! Academic on an SM bike but it clearly shows what these spark plugs can do. At the time of this writing we've done some 250 KM's with the Brisks. The silencer exit has turned a few shades lighter in colour. Without any other changes to the setup, is a very good sign.

All these things clearly point at a better combustion. The engine feels 'round' and almost 'soft'. In a positive way that is... VERY good! I still have a feeling of slight disbelief that only a weird spark plug can do this.
 
#33 · (Edited)
So took off the Kev o2 controller. My conclusion is there's no need to ever get it if you already got a PCV. I bet even with a full exhaust system you can get away without a PCV as what wiwwee states. My timeline of grabbing these stuff was awkward. I wasn't going to decat soon after but saw a solid deal on CL. I had recently put on the o2 controller when I had stock exhaust setup and that did some actual change. Biggest reason I got my bike tuned was that with the LV decat + Remus Roxx slip on, I had a huge change in power delivery but the smell was bad. Way too much gasoline smell so I thought I should get it retuned. The comparsion before and after getting tune was just refining the power delivery and smooth out certain ranges such as low rpm area. I have been slipping out my rear more often now since 2nd and 3rd gear exiting speed is much more defined on the power.

2016 690 Duke LV decat + Remus Roxx + KN airfilter + DNA S2 aircover for what it's worth.
 
#36 ·
I bet even with a full exhaust system you can get away without a PCV as what wiwwee states.
No fueling adjustments + a full exhaust means poor power delivery and lots of stalling, believe me that's how I lived for a few months and it sucks compared to having a PCV on the bike.
 
#38 ·
Not sure if you're replying to me, but just in case I should clarify that I mean Kev's O2 mod falls under fueling adjustments :smile2:
 
#42 · (Edited)
Haven't noticed any smell.
Haven't crawled under the bike to have a sniff either :grin2:
Edit. Just out of curiosity went and had a sniff.
The bike smells like fuel for sure bit the exhaust does not.
Are you sure smell was coming from the exhaust ?
And before people start with the leaky tank comments all KTM smell like fuel.
 
#44 ·
When I'm leading my friend always states how terrible my exhaust smells so it's while riding. I can't really explain it other than it has much more gasoline residue to it when I switched bikes and had him lead. Well either way it's not happening anymore after the tune and if you have no problem with it then good to know for future 16+ dukes that I don't necessarily need to go to the PCV route.
 
#45 · (Edited)
I disagree. I put on a full exhaust system on my '17 Duke for two days without PCV. It sucked.

I understand what wiwwee is saying - it's rideable and "fine". And, if you're riding aggressively (i.e. track, aggressive twisty riding), like it sounds like he does, it's probably even less noticeable when you're always up in the rev range and taking advantage of the openned up exhaust.

But for me, the loss of bottom end was noticeable (honestly more noticeable than performance gains you get with exhaust + tune over stock). More importantly, the header started turning a crazy color immediately because it was running super lean / hot. This later point I think is more important than performance gains. If you put a full system on and don't get it mapped, you're going to run lean, and you're gambling with your engine.
 
#46 ·
Agreed and that's the primary reason I got a PCV, it was running so lean that it was constantly overheating and coolant was boiling over in traffic and my header is blue now.
 
#47 ·
Interesting. Mine turned out rich. Can't say for sure though but had really ****ty mpgs and gasoline smell from exhaust. I thought in my head well air is coming out faster I need to upgrade my airbox to intake more hence upgrading to the DNA S2 cover. Either way I agree full system setups usually need to get a retuned. Cat deletes is recommended while just slipon isn't necessary
 
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