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2016 Duke warped fuel tank top. leaks when sloshed.

83K views 274 replies 61 participants last post by  Moto909 
#1 ·
So I smelt fuel the last couple of times that i filled the bike up and when riding. So i investigated what i thought may be a leak on the pressure side of the system but i found something else.

The top of the tank is pretty warped and also the gasket between the breather on top of the tank and the tank has expanded like its not able to handle the fuel.

Time to call the dealer tomorrow. I would post pictures but my count isn't high enough. Anyone know what the minimum is?

Also this is my first LC4 bike. when I start it I get a couple of seconds of what sounds like valve noise that's very noticeable, is this the autodecompression? Or should that be gone by the time the bike gets to idle rpm? Are the hydraulic cam chain tensioners still an issue? I know it used to be.
 
#80 ·
It's now been almost 2 months since my bike has been at the dealer for a fuel tank replacement, that will probably start leaking again shortly after replacement.
Anybody had success with complaining to KTM corporate about a dealer being impossibly slow at doing anything?
 
#87 · (Edited)
Have 2016 KTM Duke 690 that owned since new. Bike has always smelled of fuel & I have never overfilled gas tank. Bike also overheats, consumes oil, stalls at random & sometimes will not restart for long periods of time. Attempts to have bike serviced for issues have been ignored by a local KTM dealer for 6 months & KTM customer service has never returned phone call. As I was riding bike 5 weeks ago bike dumped fuel from top of tank down both sides of bike saturating my pants & ruining finish of frame, swingarm and plastics. Safety concern because gas sprayed on parts of exhaust and I've seen header get red hot and glow. Bike has now been in a not so local KTM dealer for 5 weeks with absolutely no repairs done or follow up from KTM. Extremely poor engineering, build quality & customer service. Filed report w/ National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
 
#89 ·
Leaking fuel tank

I'm on my third replacement tank, gasket and filler neck. My dealer assured me this isn't a common problem but it obviously is which is hugely disappointing.

I wrote to KTM's UK HQ about this issue and also about excessive oil consumption.

It's obvious that replacing the tanks isn't going to cure the problem and a redesign is needed.

I will strip mine and use some petrol proof sealant to temporarily fix the problem until KTM come up with a recall because I don't want to be without it for a long time.
 
#90 ·
I'm on my third replacement tank, gasket and filler neck. My dealer assured me this isn't a common problem but it obviously is which is hugely disappointing.

I wrote to KTM's UK HQ about this issue and also about excessive oil consumption.

It's obvious that replacing the tanks isn't going to cure the problem and a redesign is needed.

I will strip mine and use some petrol proof sealant to temporarily fix the problem until KTM come up with a recall because I don't want to be without it for a long time.
Many did the tank liners to their Ducati's
 
#91 ·
Just read through this thread and asking myself why I would even consider buying a Duke, haven't done so yet? Months waiting for parts, little to no service support and no responses from KTM. And this gas leak could hit the exhaust manifold and torch the bike and rider. To top it off, this is not a one off problem as it's affecting a bunch of bikes and riders. Really???

Even if I totally loved the bike, this is a huge flag telling me to walk away.

I do appreciate everyone sharing this on the forum. That's exactly what I came here to find out about, while sincerely hoping to find nothing really bad.

Hopefully this goes away and everyone can enjoy their Dukes.
 
#95 ·
I can't disagree with you on this issue, but considering the number of bikes that have had fuel tank issues in recent years, I think you may be excluding a lot of otherwise superb bikes. The 690 Duke is a fantastically fun motorcycle, and the fix for the problem seems to be fairly simple (see my recent post on sealing the leak).

I've owned a lot of motorcycles that were less than perfect over the years, and maybe I'm just willing to over-look a wart or two on otherwise very good bikes. KTM and the other European 'boutique' motorcycle manufactures make some great products that sometimes have issues.

I'm willing to tolerate some pain to get to ride something that is otherwise fantastic. Or conversely, riding a soulless machine that is otherwise perfect is not something I'm interested in.

I'm pretty sure no Honda would ever make it to market with a leaking fuel tank, but no Honda would deliver the goods like the Duke does.
 
#94 · (Edited)
Temporary resolution.....

I put a small bead of Permatex Permashield around both sides of the center hole in the filler-neck gasket, reassembled the filler-neck/cap on the tank and let it sit for several days. I left the cap open with a chunk of cheese cloth blue-taped over the opening to make sure the sealer dried properly and nothing solid found it's way into the tank. Was likely over-kill on the wait time, but I was out of town, so what the hey....

Anyway.... I just filled the tank nearly to the top and did a three gear wheelie test on the way home. Zero sight/smell of fuel.

This is a patch at best, and I plan to make a reinforcement flange for the tank as a more long-term fix. I'll update here when there's progress on that effort. In any case, this is an easy < 1 hour stop-gap (literally) ~fix for the lap-o-fuel problem until KTM steps up with an actual fix.
 
#96 ·
I agree 100%, because I do believe the Duke is an amazing motorcycle. However, the lack of support from both the dealerships and headquarters, plus lack of parts for months or longer simply eliminates itself from any serious consideration. Any business that chooses not to support its product doesn't deserve to succeed. Not to mention owners could go up in a fireball with this problem. No KTM for me.

And all of this for an exorbitant premium price. No thank you.
 
#97 ·
I'm struggling with this idea. I love KTM products. The other bikes I want to buy are almost all current, or soon to be (come on 790!!) KTMs. But, as you might have seen my brand new duke started leaking on the way home from the dealership. This problem seems rampant, and extremely dangerous - yet no recall... Further compounding the problem, it seems the majority of people who have had a problem have had non-positive experiences with dealerships and KTM NA. But this later point could be that angry people are more likely to come to a forum and speak up.


I guess what I'm saying is it doesn't totally compute to me the mentality of a company that is so precise, innovative, and committed to great products, but doesn't port that over to customer interaction.
 
#102 · (Edited)
This is not purely a defective tank issue. This addresses defective support and management. $9000 for a new Duke and they're knowingly putting bad tanks in them and then offering little to no support for the customers they wronged. Five years and no fix. And this is one issue on one model. Maybe a class action suit from owners with bad tanks would improve KTM's ethics problem. I doubt they'll do it on their own.
 
#105 · (Edited)
This is not purely a defective tank issue. This addresses defective support and management. $9000 for a new Duke and they're knowingly putting bad tanks in them and then offering little to no support for the customers they wronged. Five years and no fix. And this is one issue on one model. Maybe a class action suit from owners with bad tanks would would improve KTM's ethics problem. I doubt they'll do it on their own.
It may come to that. As soon as one or two of these bikes go all Tibetan-monk the lawyers will start circling. Flames or no flames, I would guess that the EPA, NTSB and CARB would be interested in the problem too.
 
#107 ·
Leaking Fuel Tank

I've written to KTM asking them to deal with my leaking tank once and for all because I was told by my local dealer that my problem is unique and they haven't heard of any similar issues. However this was before reading this thread which a friend found and sent to me. I admit to being very upset that they lied to me because it's now apparent there are lots of similar problems but KTM are doing noting about it.

It wouldn't be so bad if it were not a safety related problem but petrol sloshing over the side of the tank, running down the side to a hot engine and exhaust it's only a matter of time before someone has a fire.

Because my bike has been off the road for around two weeks each time my local dealer has replaced the tank and it hasn't cured the problem, I'm going to deal with it myself using some non setting petrol-proof sealant.

Additionally, if I can use a couple more fasteners to secure the tank filler to the tank I will do because this will help prevent it warping.

I love my 690 Duke which is one of three great bikes I have but because of its size and fun factor I use it most days for the majority of my transport so don't want to be without it or it being a danger to me.
 
#108 ·
I've repaired mine myself

Because KTM have changed my tank, filler neck and gasket twice on my 2016 690 Duke and the petrol leak hasn't been cured I thought I'd have a go myself.

I bought some petrol resistant gasket type sealant and took the filler neck off the tank.

Drilled three additional holes in the filler neck/petrol cap holder and tank.

Cleaned the top of the tank and filler neck where they join and applied a generous amount of sealant on the filler neck.

Re-fitted the filler neck with the three additional nuts and bolts which should keep the two surfaces together better than previously.

Put the bike back together and left it for 24 hours to ensure the gasket sealant has time to cure.

Filled bike to top with petrol and check for leaks.

I'm very pleased to say there were none even after riding.
 
#109 ·
I started smelling gas fumes on my repaired tank so I took a look today. This tank doesn't appear as warped as the last one but it's clearly not sealing.
Loaded it in the back of my truck and it's going back to the dealer tomorrow. My 35 minute commute now becomes a 1.5 hour commute. Yay!

 
#111 ·
I started smelling gas fumes on my repaired tank so I took a look today. This tank doesn't appear as warped as the last one but it's clearly not sealing.
Loaded it in the back of my truck and it's going back to the dealer tomorrow. My 35 minute commute now becomes a 1.5 hour commute. Yay!
Hey, I feel your pain. I bought the Duke to split lanes on 680 between P-town and Fremont. The afternoon commute north out of Fremont in a car is intolerable. 30 minutes on a bike, an hour and 45 in a car..... on a good day.

BTW, was that you I saw on San Ramon Valley Blvd on Saturday?
 
#113 ·
So, do you think the filler door mounting flange is too thin or not?? Your tank top does not look warped in your picture indicating your flange may indeed be the weak link. Feedback please.

Regarding where you're commuting, I lived out there in the early seventies and left because of the crowding. I can't even imagine what it must be like today. The only traffic problems I had were out to the ocean and back on weekends.
 
#114 ·
So, do you think the filler door mounting flange is too thin or not?? Your tank top does not look warped in your picture indicating your flange may indeed be the weak link. Feedback please.
I didn't get a really good picture of it but the top plastic on the tank separates from the layer under it. Not sure if it is a metal ring for the filler door to bolt to or if it extends further into the tank. The top plastic is deformed to the point where the threaded areas are raised slightly.
The original picture is mainly to show that the fuel residue is seeping past the gasket. Here is the best I got of the side in which you can kind of see the raised areas if you look very carefully. It probably only takes a little bit for of unevenness for fuel to leak out since the gasket is only clamped in so few spots by the mounting bolts.



I started window shopping other bikes today online and I'm liking the idea of a Suzuki V Storm.
 
#118 · (Edited)
I managed to find time to make a reinforcement plate today.

I bought a sheet of 16Ga 304 stainless for the first stab at this. My original plan was to use a fly-cutter type of circle cutter to cut the two circles. Turns out that 304 SS is not as easy to cut as the aluminum that I've cut before. I fried two bits before resorting to a step drill and die-grinder to cut the inner circle, and a band-saw and grinder to make the outer circle. The result is less than perfect, but it should work well enough to prove if this is a viable solution.

I used a new gasket as a template and transfer punches to locate the holes. I used a orbital sander to de-burr the plate, and the final thickness is .058". That's just a few thousandths more than the recess of the fuel cap on my bike, so adding this under the cap should make it just about flush with the tank top.

The plan is to put this plate between the tank and the gasket to make a flat/solid surface that the gasket can seal to. The Permatex Permashield sealer will go under the plate between the plate and the tank top. This will make a new permanent gasket mating surface that should be warp free forever.

Lessons learned so far;
> 304 SS is a seriously tough material. I've never worked with it before and it was a surprise to see how difficult it was to cut.
> 16Ga (.064"/1.62mm) is plenty thick/stiff. 18Ga may have been a better choice.
> I think I need a plasma cutter.

I'll try installing this next weekend and update here.
 

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#119 ·
Mario,

Thanks for doing this and posting the results.

Good to hear you learned about how stainless steel work hardens. It is good experience to have under one's belt. Constant cutting is required to prevent the material you contact with your cutter from increasing in hardness. Tough to do without actual automatic feed machine tools. With hand tools, only slow and steady makes progress.

Kudos for your efforts and sharing information. Please keep up posted.
 
#121 ·
I just got my bike back from the dealer after the tank was replaced for the 2nd time. I'm hoping it lasts a little longer than 2 months this time.

The dealer seemed to imply that KTM is actively working on a fix for the tank but he didn't know any details about timing or what they were doing. KTM overnighted a new tank but he said the strange thing is there was no part number associated with the tank when it arrived. Dealer said they didn't see anything obviously different with this tank but it's hard to tell if small design changes or material changes might have happened. I asked about the 2nd customer at this dealer with the same issue and timing as my bike and they told me he is waiting for the permanent fix and just not filling it up past 3/4.

If this 3rd tank starts leaking again like I fear it will, I'll most likely contact a lawyer and proceed with the lemon law or buyback procedure.
 
#124 · (Edited)
Sir Real Ed, No such luck unfortunately KTM keeps its cards close to their chest. They know how serious and expensive the problem is. Was at the dealer today, stoked that they finally replaced my tank after my bike being at service center since first week of May. Was upset that KTM USA didn't authorize for any of the other half dozen safety concerns and major malfunctions to even be looked at yet on my 2016 KTM Duke 690. The dealer asked for me to pick up bike. Told them no way, not until KTM fixes the pile of junk. KTM USA customer service rep just made excuses for poor follow up and worse customer service. At this rate I'm projecting that I should have my bike back around mid 2018. I'm done with this Duke with it's design flaws, rushed development, poor production quality control and bad customer service I've received from KTM USA. Stopped by Suzuki dealer on way home and fell in love with my new Suzuki GSX S1000. Looking forward to trouble free riding, owned over a dozen Zuki's and never had problems.
 
#127 · (Edited)
I installed the SS flange today. Well, I made another one because I wasn't happy with the center hole in the first one I made. Anyway... I also added seven closed end blind countersunk rivets to the plate around the outside. Three in the each of the large gaps between the screws, and one at the back. I took a lot of pictures during most of the plate fab', but forgot to take pics before adding the rivets. If anybody wants to see some of the pics, let me know.

Installation; I slathered the tank top and plate bottom with Permatex Permashield, and riveted the plate to the tank. Then replaced the cap with the four screws. The small screw on inside of the cap needed to be longer, so I put in a 5X16.

Total time to fab' the plate and install it was about 4 hours. Cost was about $35 including the SS plate, sealer, and rivets. I have a lot of all of those left over.

After a top-off at the local station, I performed the wheelie test, and there was zero sign/smell of fuel when I got home. I'm calling this a win.
 

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#128 ·
Mario,

More pics please. I never thought about rivets. Good thinking!

Great thinking if you have a permanent repair! :wink2:

I imagine KTM is ducking dealing with this issue due to cost and liability. No doubt the tank is made be an outside vendor like Acerbis.

Our perhaps they have confidence in their buyers (and the aftermarket) to fix a problem if they ignore it long enough.

I am kind of surprised that Acerbis or Clark hasn't offered a slightly larger replacement tank. It would seem that they might have a few customers ready and waiting.

It would be interesting to know if any of their technical people have been looking at the Duke tank and have identified the problem.
 
#129 ·
Making the center hole.

I used a #36 drill to make a circle of holes, then opened up the holes with a step drill. A die grinder with a pointed carbide burr to take out the material that was left between the holes. A 1" diameter burr to smooth the bumps and open up the hole to 2.100".
 

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