Slow Cranking 2016 Duke 690 - KTM Forums: KTM Motorcycle Forum
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post #1 of 42 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 08:05 PM Thread Starter
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Slow Cranking 2016 Duke 690

My brand new 2016 Duke 690 cranks very slow at first. Sometimes, even though the starter engages immediately, you can hold the starter button down for a couple seconds before it can turn over the engine. The piston may just have come to rest at the start of the compression stroke and the starter struggles to get it past the compression stroke. It any event it something seems weak.

Battery charge is 13.2 to 13.6 volts depending upon which charger was used, or if it is was recently ridden and charged by the bike itself. Key on, voltage drops to 12.5 to 12.9 volts, and while cranking it may drop into the 7 to 8 volt range. I have been told by a local KTM service guy, that's normal. After owning about 45 bikes, 30 or so of which were electric start, it sure does not seem normal to me. Another source told me if the voltage drops below 9.5 volts, that is an indicator of a problem.

Looked at all the cable ends, and checked for tight connections. Everything was tight, but the paint removal on the frame ground left a lot to be desired. Cleaning the paint off the ground and retesting resulted in a voltage drop to 8.7 volts while cranking.

After a few minutes of riding, when the bike is hot it cranks much faster. If I can figure out how to do it, I will post a video later.

Any thoughts or similar experiences?

Thanks in advance!
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post #2 of 42 (permalink) Old 09-14-2016, 08:47 PM
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Any thoughts or similar experiences?
Yes. I experience similar, but give it no concern until it won't start. But it always does start, so I just leave it to its own devices. Sometimes it is more pronounced than others.

If your riding mates ever question you or rubbish your bike, just say your bike has insane compression and that is why it is faster than their bikes.

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It's literally hard to explain how good they are
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post #3 of 42 (permalink) Old 09-15-2016, 03:43 AM
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There is a problem with some 16's which is due to over application of lock tight as I understand it [which is to say not that well] which apparently jams the decompression valve resulting in slow to no turn over in the engine - get the dealer to check it.

Current:
2016 Duke 690R
1,400 kms

Past:
2008 KTM 690 Duke
2008 SuperDuke R
2001 Ducati 748R
1996 Ducati Monster 900
ZXR 400
GPX 250
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post #4 of 42 (permalink) Old 09-15-2016, 06:06 AM Thread Starter
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That was my first thought..... but then thinking that Austrians are imitating Italians is not confidence inspiring. Where's that Teutonic pride?
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post #5 of 42 (permalink) Old 09-15-2016, 06:13 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks Boidgeover, that was my second thought, a jammed auto decompresser. But I did not know if the bike had one. What you say make perfect sense.

Do you have any more specific information? Are they any service bulletins circulating?

More searching produced this on the UK KTM forum. Obviously it is a different bike:

I've had this with my SM690P. Should be one thing: no decompression when starting. When the auto decompression does not work properly, the starter motor will not be able to turn the engine. The compression is simply too high.

Pay attention to this: whenever you switch off the bike, you should hear a loud 'clack' in the last few revs. That's a spring pushing a pin into a hole in the cilinder head. This pin will engage the auto decompression on the next start. When the mechanism isn't fitted or working properly, you won't hear this clack. Workaround: engage in first gear, release clutch and rock the bike back and forth, so the pin can engage. It will start normally after that.
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post #6 of 42 (permalink) Old 09-15-2016, 03:00 PM
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My only problem to date was this one - my dealer picked up the bike, dropped off a loaner, fixed it then dropped it back to me - it was great service - could not have asked for more. They mentioned at the time that they had contacted KTM about it and were disassembling and reassembling these parts on all their new 690 Dukes as a precaution. Sorry not sure if its an officially notified issue but hopefully your dealer and others are as good as mine!

Current:
2016 Duke 690R
1,400 kms

Past:
2008 KTM 690 Duke
2008 SuperDuke R
2001 Ducati 748R
1996 Ducati Monster 900
ZXR 400
GPX 250
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post #7 of 42 (permalink) Old 09-15-2016, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by SIR REAL ED View Post
Pay attention to this: whenever you switch off the bike, you should hear a loud 'clack' in the last few revs. That's a spring pushing a pin into a hole in the cilinder head. This pin will engage the auto decompression on the next start. When the mechanism isn't fitted or working properly, you won't hear this clack. Workaround: engage in first gear, release clutch and rock the bike back and forth, so the pin can engage. It will start normally after that.

This is NOT how the Duke auto-de-compression system works. I am not an expert or even knowledgable about the internal workings of many engines, but this I do know because my old cam (I got the Stage 1 cam fitted) is right next to my keyboard - I use it as a paper weight and to make my desk look like it belongs to "someone who knows"

The auto-de-compression unit is on the Duke's cam shaft. The cam shaft has has a weight on it which is lightly spring loaded, it operates very much like a centrifugal clutch, as the cam spins up the weight flies to its outer limit and turns a small key which inserts into the closest cam lobe. When the weight is stationary the key "bumps" the valve and decompression results. When the cam is spinning, the weight slides to its outer limit, turning the key sideways where it presents a flat surface to the valve and slips under the valve preventing decompression.

The mechanism you describe sounds like a car's starter-motor solenoid activated pin that drives the clutch.

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It's literally hard to explain how good they are
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post #8 of 42 (permalink) Old 09-15-2016, 06:19 PM Thread Starter
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This is NOT how the Duke auto-de-compression system works. I am not an expert or even knowledgable about the internal workings of many engines, but this I do know because my old cam (I got the Stage 1 cam fitted) is right next to my keyboard - I use it as a paper weight and to make my desk look like it belongs to "someone who knows"

The auto-de-compression unit is on the Duke's cam shaft. The cam shaft has has a weight on it which is lightly spring loaded, it operates very much like a centrifugal clutch, as the cam spins up the weight flies to its outer limit and turns a small key which inserts into the closest cam lobe. When the weight is stationary the key "bumps" the valve and decompression results. When the cam is spinning, the weight slides to its outer limit, turning the key sideways where it presents a flat surface to the valve and slips under the valve preventing decompression.

The mechanism you describe sounds like a car's starter-motor solenoid activated pin that drives the clutch.
I knew the 2016 Duke 690 had a new and unique cylinder head, and so far, the only pictures/videos/information I have been able to find are of other 690s. Your description is accurate, based on what little information I have seen. Thanks.

Not sure what the UK post was describing, but it did flush some more information out of the woodwork. Mission accomplished.

I really, really hate to let other people work on my bikes, but, since the bike is still on warranty, I am tempted to let the dealer look at it. Right now they need to give me some correct information to regain my confidence.

I would imagine that simply by removing the cam cover it should be obvious if the decompressor's centrifugal weight is in the position it should be when the cam is not spinning. Sounds like a little Loctite got between the pivot bolt and the centrifugal weight and/or the weight and the camsprocket.

I don't really want to remove the camshaft of a bike under warranty, but I would think removing the pivot bolt and cleaning with carb cleaner and Scotchbrite, and adding a bit of assembly lube, should to get things freed up. Based on the camshaft you have, do you think the pivot bolt could be removed with the camshaft in place?

Any pictures would be appreciated..... of the camshaft that is. No nutscape pictures please. I've dealt with Aussies before (who oddly enough refer to their language as Strine)! Directly related to me Merikan redneck kin they are!
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post #9 of 42 (permalink) Old 09-15-2016, 08:36 PM
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It's not Strine (which I imagine sounds - streen), it's Strayan or even Strain - which oddly enough gets reduced to Strine - dunno why.

I have never heard of nutscaping until your post - I think you've put me onto my next hobby.

Here is a pic of a local sunset



PS - some serious pics of cams, lobes and other spinning bits when I get home later

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It's literally hard to explain how good they are
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post #10 of 42 (permalink) Old 09-15-2016, 08:48 PM Thread Starter
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It's not Strine (which I imagine sounds - streen), it's Strayan or even Strain - which oddly enough gets reduced to Strine - dunno why.

I have never heard of nutscaping until your post - I think you've put me onto my next hobby.

Here is a pic of a local sunset



PS - some serious pics of cams, lobes and other spinning bits when I get home later
Cultural exchange with the goal of mutual personal improvement. It's whot the internet is all bout, rite mate?

Looking forward to the pics. Thanks again.
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