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Old 04-12-2012, 11:51 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Ovic RC8R View Post
I just bought my 2011RC8R had a 2010 RC8 I also have a 990 super duke.I love it when the ducati guys say KTM just make dirt bikes.
Well, it is true... if you really think about it. The 690/990 dukes are both just big dirt bikes. You could easily put off-road suspension on it and put it on the dirt. So yes, at low speeds, the 990 handles better then any Ducati because its lighter and more nimble. Raise those speeds up a bit, hit a chicane at 120mph come back and tell me which bike you wanna be on as the 990 becomes unstable and the Ducati feels like your riding rails.

Trust me, I REALLY tried to love the RC8. Maybe it will take me buying one to fully understand/release its potential. However, what drives me away from it is the suspension (WP doesn't know how to make superbike suspension) the riding position and the bike's geometry which can't be changed that easily since there really isn't a huge aftermarket for the RC8 like the Ducati superbikes.

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I've owed Italian bikes as well. They are works of art.The problem is they all have their quirks.You have love to hate them.
I think the best motto about Ducati is; "Ducati, making mechanics out of riders since 1968" LOL

I find that true however about KTM as well. As much as I try to hide it, I've had 2 KTM dirt bikes and now the 690 and honestly, they've all had issues very similar to my Ducati's. You can call them "quirks" of owning a european machine.

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If you want to race for a living and are good enough to win then Ducati is great because they race and you can get more support.
Support to the level necessary to make a great bike. There isn't a street bike made that is any good. With Ducati I can buy all the components I need from aftermarket manufacturers to make it good, I don't need to buy anything from Ducati themselves. With KTM, you're kinda stuck buying SXS components from KTM to make your bike better. I like being able to pick up the phone and call Magneti Marelli in the UK to get a re-time ECU, mapping kit and traction control. I like being able to call up my buddy at Öhlins and have him build my new suspension because he knows ducati's and can build it right. That "support" is honestly what makes Ducati so great. If you ride any bike stock without any changes to the chassis, geometry or electronics you are really missing out sadly.

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When KTM starts to get more involved with racing watch how bad they will beat the ducati's.
Sadly, KTM doesn't have enough money to through at racing competitively. BSB had the RC8 cup for a while, that was KTM's great hope and it was a flop. Just to compare the two companies, KTM is trying to get 5.6 million euro's from investors. Ducati is 800 million euro's in debt. So yea, you can't compare the two companies at all, they are words apart. Likewise KTM to me is an AMAZING company for who they are and what they are able to achieve.

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One thing to remember an RC8R will cost you 16k the new ducati is 25k+You can buy a lot of go fast stuff for your KTM for the differance.
:Gulp:

Compare the two bikes:

The RC8R specs: 175hp, 405 dry weight, $16k USD
The 1198 specs: 170hp, 395 dry weight, 18k USD

Ohh and dealers are scrambling to kill off 1198S inventory, so you can get an 1198S which is lighter, has TC and full Öhlins suspension for about 19k right now. Go ahead and buy full Öhlins for that RC8R and you'll be right around 19k by the time your done.

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I have an open track day next week I'll see how many ducati's I go by or if they are better they can go by me. For me IT's THE RIDER.That why I did not get all TC abs crap.
I agree, it is all about the rider, which is why I ride 750/850cc twins and not booming over-square (all grunt and no punt) 1200cc machines. My bike was a 8 year old design when I raced it and I still got holeshots against RC8's and 1198's as if they just couldn't lay down the power on the start. I even go on the podium a few times in the "heavyweight" classes against bikes that had almost twice the displacement!

My 749R revved to 12,000 RPM! Can't say for a second it doesn't sound good:

http://www.madducracing.com/movies/749rpass.aif

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There are so many nice bikes out there. The new BMW is a bad ***.If my town had a BMW dealer It would have been tough.Then I would have to learn all that TC abs stuff.
Meh, its just a Japanese bike in German clothing.
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:41 PM   #12 (permalink)
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You 100% correct about the susp.WP is no match for Ohlins.But the new RC8R is amazing I had a 2010 It's a night and day differance.One I have had the duke in high speed 120+ sweepers and loved it.It never gave me any shake whats so ever.I did have my susp done and I only run pirelli tires.

I just sold the duke today. I loved that bike I could ride it all day.The problem is I am a big guy the problem with working out. by the time I get my gear on I am almost 300 lbs.So this time I did not work out for 5 weeks and I lost 20 lbs.even with that the duke top speed with me is 135-138 max.For some tracks thats ok.others you will just be blown by.

Now the new RC8 Is crazy fast I won't go what it can go. I like 150-165 after that I feel a little on edge.

As far as support KTM has a track only bike it is not street legal that bike is even faster.There is a guy on our duke forum that races that bike.he did change the susp to ohlins and I hear is doing very well across the pond.

When it comes to Italian bike I wish aprilia had dealers.I love those they imo
are the bad *** the RSv4 is truly amazing it comes with everything.If they had any dealer net work I would have another ape.

Now after having so many exotic bikes and having to drive for a day to get it worked on.I won't do it any more.
I have a good KTM dealer in my small town that can do warranty if needed.
and I can get my stock wp good enough to go fast.I don't race anymore was thinking about the over 40 stock just a pipe and air cleaner.

That I might do I don't need a 6k susp kit the new RC8 really does a great job.I am surprized you did not notice all the changes you can adjust.
I put Rizoma rearsets pulled my back pegs 2 inches you can raise the bars and bring them in or out.The bike is almost like a duke now.

The riding position is so comfy I never thought I could ride a sport bike again.
In 08 I had 3 new discs put in my back.took two years to heal. Now I can ride the RC8 200 miles with no pain.

My friends CBR1000rr I can't last 10 minutes. I saw the new ducati price with the carbon it's 26k The track only KTM withall the go fast stuff and maps and slicks is 19k This bike can do anything you want it to do.Put Stoner on that bike I bet it wins a few races.

Bottom line brother There are so many great bikes,fast bikes etc but some have soul I4 ahhh boring V4 cool as hell, V twin I love them don't care who makes them just like them and the sound.I do have to say apriia's sound so good.My RC8R with a FMF apex is loud as hell but nothing else sounds like it.
The apes sound great with stock exhaust.

The ducati does come with great stuff susp is the best. It's the gremlins that make me crazy and Italian bikes all have them.Maybe that what gives them soul.
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:09 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I just sold the duke today. I loved that bike I could ride it all day.The problem is I am a big guy the problem with working out. by the time I get my gear on I am almost 300 lbs.So this time I did not work out for 5 weeks and I lost 20 lbs.even with that the duke top speed with me is 135-138 max.For some tracks thats ok.others you will just be blown by.
Ohh thats too bad about the Duke, but your comments are echo'd with other people I've talked with who are heavy. You need something with some serious powah to get you around. I'm literally 1/2 your weight with gear on. So a 40hp dirt bike and a 130hp sport bike are pretty much all I need for power. It also makes sense that you had very little chatter or front end stabilization issues, your suspension rides at a totally different level in the stroke then suspension that I would ride. Plus the chassis compresses differently with the weight differential, so there are HUGE differences in performance.

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As far as support KTM has a track only bike it is not street legal that bike is even faster. There is a guy on our duke forum that races that bike.he did change the susp to ohlins and I hear is doing very well across the pond.
Actually according to the press release the track-only RC8 has the same power as the RC8R with an exhaust. I really like the whole concept of the track-only and if I could buy a used one to mess with, I'd probably do it just to get some more experience with the machine. I wish Ducati did a track-only version of the 1198S or 1198R. But sadly, people who buy Italian bikes, generally flaunt them at Starbucks, not seriously ride them on the track. Its one of the issues I have generally with Italian bikes.

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When it comes to Italian bike I wish aprilia had dealers.I love those they imo
are the bad *** the RSv4 is truly amazing it comes with everything. If they had any dealer net work I would have another ape.
Here in southern california, Aprilia dealers are actually vespa dealers. The Piaggo group decided a few years ago to put all Piaggo bikes under one roof. Its interesting because its a hodge podge of scooters and serious street bikes.

The RSV4 is a problematic machine sadly. Every one I've seen working on the street, has a owner with stories of total utter failure. In fact, one of my old racing buddies bought 2 of them and blew both of them up his first race weekend. Demanded his money back and Aprilia did just that, plus extra! The problem is, Piaggo doesn't have the resources to build such a nice bike, where Ducati does. Ducati sub's everything out, where Aprilia tries to make everything cheap in-house and that's problematic.

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Now after having so many exotic bikes and having to drive for a day to get it worked on. I won't do it any more. I have a good KTM dealer in my small town that can do warranty if needed. I can get my stock wp good enough to go fast. I don't race anymore was thinking about the over 40 stock just a pipe and air cleaner.
I do all my own work from engine re-builds to complete bike builds, reliability to me is actually secondary to performance. I can fix reliability, I can't fix a bad chassis. I have never once dropped off any bike to a dealer, so I can't associate with that experience. We have 5 Ducati, 4 Aprilia and 3 KTM, 2 Triumph and 1 BMW service provider in an 80 mile range from my house. So whatever european flavor you want, we've got it covered! God bless southern california and motorcycle riding! LOL

BTW, out here, KTM street bikes are WAY more exotic then Ducati's. This is one of the reasons why I bought a 690!

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The riding position is so comfy I never thought I could ride a sport bike again. In 08 I had 3 new discs put in my back.took two years to heal. Now I can ride the RC8 200 miles with no pain.
OUCH!!! that sucks! I feel for ya mate, back injuries are big trouble.

Yea, the RC8's riding position is not sport bike, it is more like a touring bike. You sit down into the bike and the bars are raised. Reminds me a lot of the ol Honda F2 I use to have. Great position for tooling around the streets, not so hot for racing. But then again, Ducati's are made for a 140lb 5' 8" skinny roadracer. I'm close to that weight/size, but still Ducati's feel small to me and I really dig that feeling.

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I saw the new ducati price with the carbon it's 26k The track only KTM withall the go fast stuff and maps and slicks is 19k This bike can do anything you want it to do.Put Stoner on that bike I bet it wins a few races.
Yea the new Panagali is a train-wreck, in my view its gonna be the end of Ducati as we know them today. Being 800 million euro's in debt and now owned by VW, not a good sign for the future in my view. Ducati has lost everything that I love about them, now they build bikes for looks and specs. Its funny how their 6 year old bike is still winning in WSBK, but we somehow needed a MotoGP copy with a 2V in it for 20k+! Ridiculous!

Any bike in the right hands is capable of winning races. Put Colin Edwards on that RC8 in AMA with a full suspension package and team who is willing to make some one-off components like triple clamps, I think he'd do well. Would he win a championship? Maybe not... but I don't think anyone riding a Ducati could either.

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Bottom line brother There are so many great bikes,fast bikes etc but some have soul I4 ahhh boring V4 cool as hell, V twin I love them don't care who makes them just like them and the sound.I do have to say apriia's sound so good.My RC8R with a FMF apex is loud as hell but nothing else sounds like it.
The apes sound great with stock exhaust.
I agree, there are so many great bikes out there. My hero was Troy Bayliss and I always wanted to race the bikes he rode, so I did. Twins rock because of how they lay down power, they don't chew up tires and they don't "spin up" either, they are very planted. Combustion chamber and cam timing have a great deal to do with sound and to me there is nothing like the raw sound of a 12k RPM revving small-bore twin. My 748R and 749R were both amazing sounding bikes. The 1198R's that I heard at the track, with the huge boom, were also amazing sounding. I've heard a few RC8's with the Akaprovic exhaust and they sounded OK, never heard the FMF pipe sadly.

Ohh and yes, older Italian stuff does have quite a soul. I think the newer bikes don't have very much at all, they're too overly built for my taste.
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Old 04-12-2012, 11:44 PM   #14 (permalink)
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i know you are lucky to have all the dealers close.I am from the Valley and Simi Valley Born and raised Had my own distb company in the late 80's and 90's.I was a FMF distb AC racing Smith etc.I raced motocross most of my life.
Last month I had 6 bikes now I have 2 The 2011 RC8R and my 03 100 year Harley I sold my YZ450f 07and 08 my 2010 RC8 and now my duke.

For me the RC8R is the bike I can ride it fast on the track and the back roads in AZ
The problem is even if you have dealers half of then don't know the bikes.When I had my ape I loved that bike but the dealers had no clue.
It's bad when you buy a bike and you know more than the dealer does.
Even my KTM I bought it at a dealer in Tucson He told me they have seen so few that they don't know the bike.I am bad at puter stuff still trying to learn how to work th puter on my bike.
I can't wait till this fri track day at chuckwalla nice track lots of fun.
the 28th abc in fontana I don't think I can do that one.
I want to do miller in utah.so many tracks so little time right bro?
At my age I only have a few years left so I got to do them all
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Old 04-13-2012, 01:11 AM   #15 (permalink)
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i know you are lucky to have all the dealers close.I am from the Valley and Simi Valley Born and raised Had my own distb company in the late 80's and 90's.I was a FMF distb AC racing Smith etc.I raced motocross most of my life.
WOW, very kool stuff! I just got started in motocross. I'm sad I didn't do it when I was younger, I find it hard to learn it at 34 years of age, but I get by.

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The problem is even if you have dealers half of then don't know the bikes.When I had my ape I loved that bike but the dealers had no clue.
It's bad when you buy a bike and you know more than the dealer does.
Even my KTM I bought it at a dealer in Tucson He told me they have seen so few that they don't know the bike.I am bad at puter stuff still trying to learn how to work th puter on my bike.
Yep, I know exactly what you mean. I know some independent shop owners and its sad to see someone with a nice Duc ride up to get service done, scares me. Some people just haven't got a clue, which is why I specialize in Ducati 4 valve motor service on the side.

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I can't wait till this fri track day at chuckwalla nice track lots of fun.
the 28th abc in fontana I don't think I can do that one. I want to do miller in utah.s o many tracks so little time right bro?
At my age I only have a few years left so I got to do them all
I hear ya! I sadly have only ridden the tracks in so-cal; Buttonwillow, Streets of Willow, Big Willow and Autoclub Speedway. I haven't been to chuckwalla as I refuse to go into the middle of the desert, 60 miles from anything and race motorcycles. We do have a lot of tracks here, but sadly they all kinda suck in their own way, which is too bad. I really wanna do Miller, Laguna Seca and Sears Point/Infinion. If I can survive the next few years at my current job, I might be able to make that dream come true.
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Old 04-13-2012, 03:55 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I have been on all those except auto club, Laguna before they changed it.
Now they have noise regs.If you have a pipe you may not get to ride it.
Your missing out Chuckwalla is a great track.It's only 2 years old and not beat up from all the cars like willow.So what if it in the middle of nowhere .When we go we have a bunch of us that have never met in person just on the forums.We pitch in make a great pit and everyone is there for fun no ego crap
some real fast guys and many first timers we all help out.You would love the track.There it's not about horsepower the straights are short so you can't do crazy speeds.I like that I really am not a top end guy I like to go fast in the turns I have go pro video of me doing 85 on the straights and 90 in the turns
We go ther to just have fun and dice a little but it's all about being safe no squids.They have a b c groups A are for the real fast guys.This time I am bringing a friend that is fast but has never been on a track so we are doing the C group which is cool if they see you going really fast they will bump you up.It sells out everytime. You should try it it great for smaller bikes you don't need a 1000 cc for sure.My duke loved that track.Since I just got my 2011 it will be the first time for that bike. I am so looking forward to the bowl you can fly.This is my favorite track I love willow but its beat up and the streets no thanks. Sears was nice but I did that one a life time ago.I raced for 5 years had sponcers club racing back then they did not have track days so if you wanted to be on a track you had to race.At 56 I am lucky I was there when everything evolved.I saw the first GSXR all the new sport bikes before there was no such thing.We made our own.you could not buy anything.
I could tell you some stories that would blow you mind.
You really should try Chucky you will love it.
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Old 04-13-2012, 04:19 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I agree with your opinion of the WP suspension. superduke R: complete fail. works OK below 60mph but once you go faster or the road gets bumpy I do not feel comfortable. dave moss help me setup which improved the bike greatly but it still does not behave on washboard surfaces.

2011 RC8R: sag set for me and factory comp/reb settings. better than the SDR but still did not give me confidence. it would have definitely needed a revalve but I found used ohlins. installed those and instantly I felt confident in the front end even when it's bumpy. this was even before I had a pro help me set up.
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Old 04-13-2012, 04:46 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I have been on all those except auto club, Laguna before they changed it.
OMG laguna before they changed it!! LOL that was a while ago!!! heh

Yea Autoclub has good pavement, but sadly there was A bump on the track that was causing people who didn't know how to ride, to crash. So they put a stupid coned chicane there and its ruined the track. It use to be my favorite track because it has a lot of challenges, its more of a test track, then a race track in my view.

I was about 2 seconds a lap slower then the fastest amateur 1198 Ducati racer at that track. On most fun practice weekends, I was the quickest guy the whole day. I know because they had mandatory AMB laptimers that were handed out to everyone and everyone's times were logged. I remember being top 10 in WERA practice in summer 2009, I was the 3rd quickest sub liter bike. I had some good decent pace on that 749R. Obviously still about 7 seconds clear of the all-time professional lap record on a sub liter bike.


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Your missing out Chuckwalla is a great track.
I know the owners personally and Dustin who runs the trackdays there. We all moto together and talk on the other forum (socalmoto.org). They've been trying to get me out their for a while, but I don't have a track bike anymore. At this point, I don't see myself getting another track bike either, I've kinda been there done that. I've ridden/raced the three bikes that I wanted to and was successful, I mean there isn't much more I can ask for besides pushing harder and crashing more, which sucks. So I've kinda hung up my leathers for the time being and maybe someday when I'm older, I will give up motocross and return to tarmac since its a lot easier. Plus, I live about 1.5 hrs from 5 motocross tracks, so that 3+ hr drive to Chuckwalla for 2 hrs MAX ride time, just doesn't seem worth it when I can drive 1.5 hrs and ride all day! heh

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I could tell you some stories that would blow you mind.
I would love to hear them! When you hit up autoclub speedway, let me know and I will be glad to drive an hour to see you and hang out.
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Old 04-13-2012, 04:50 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I agree with your opinion of the WP suspension. superduke R: complete fail. works OK below 60mph but once you go faster or the road gets bumpy I do not feel comfortable. dave moss help me setup which improved the bike greatly but it still does not behave on washboard surfaces.
I've never ridden anything BUT race-grade, professionally tuned Öhlins suspended bikes. Honestly, it sucks that WP has to make such crappy suspension, kinda pisses me off because the bikes are SOOOO Much better then they let on with Öhlins.
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Old 04-14-2012, 05:24 AM   #20 (permalink)
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If I was really trying to go fast i would spend the cash and just change out the susp. When I club raced 30 years ago I had nothing but the best.Ran slicks on a FZR fully built 1000 at willow I was ok high 1:30's to low 1:40's It was a blast turn 8 back then I had a radar at 160 for that time it was pretty fast now a 600 could do it out of the box.We had 5g's in the motor alone man things were so differant then.Now on my RC8 I like it the way it is.It's fun for me.I had to stop motocross out here the lack of dirt and the amount of rock is a drag.I miss groomed tracks.I hate all the rock here.One day after it rained for a couple of days.

I went to a place which has every kind of riding.It's nice for here.
Anyway I was on these switch backs on my YZ450f my 08 with the fineline susp I remember I was in 3rd gear pinned and thought you idiot what are you going to do if you go down? as you know we all have to fall or your not going fast enough.I can't just putt.This is why my back is so bad I can't afford to go down in that rock and it was just a matter of time.If my surgen knew what I was doing he would ****.So thats when I knew I had to give it up.

I love dirt bikes rode them before they had bikes from Japan.I rode a 400 CZ and Husky's. I raced them all Ascot,Indian Dunes ,Lions night races day you name it.Hopetown was so cool.

So for me I have to go the other way the tarmac I feel pretty good with my 1 piece suit and my spine protector.I feel like iron man when I put that GP suit on.
So for now I love to go do tracks at least my back has protection and thats good.I had nothing when I rode dirt.
Trust me bro you never want to have this surgey I have 6 screws that are 2.5 inches long drilled into my spine.My xrays looks like I have a erector set in my back.

I am going to see how I do for about 5 more track days.Then I want to race one more time The old guy class.Just a couple of tracks I know on my duke my lap times were not bad and that was against guys that were on full race bikes. So we will see this friday how the RC8R does I will have a guy out there to help me with my susp. ED Sorbo He helped me a bunch with my duke.
I know I will never be like I was when I was 20 but I can go fast and would love to race with guys my age.Those guys know we have to go to work on monday. so we race but not to get a pro contract.For the fun of it what a consept huh?
Maybe one day we can meet at the rock store.I have a ton of friends out there and I bring my bike out there in the summer.Out here it's 125 degrees
So I like to ride out there HWY 33 I grew up on those roads.I could tell you stories about the big guns in the M/C industry.I knew them when they were just getting started.You would be amazied.Just the stories about Honda Land would make you wish you could have seen it.

I'll let you know bro.You still ride the street right?
Vic
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2010 RC8 (sold)
08 Superduke All the mods (sold)
09 Aprilia 750 Dorsoduro (sold)
07,08 YZ450F (sold)
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