Ktm 400 Exc Clutch Pressure Problem - Page 2 - KTM Forums: KTM Motorcycle Forum
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post #11 of 54 (permalink) Old 09-20-2016, 05:12 PM
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KTM 400 exc 2005

I'm having an issue with the clutch in that it's lost all pressure so I bled the system pushing the mineral oil up from the bottom. That worked for about one day then it was back to nothing. I've read something about there being a seal so you can't see the bearings inside the engine but I can see them clearly with no seal or remnants of a seal in sight. All that was in the slave cylinder was the pressure plate with a ball in it and an o-ring around it and a spring behind it. Is the only thing I should replace is the o-ring, or should look for a seal for the bearings. If whatever I should look for can someone direct me to the right sizes and possibly a place to buy.
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post #12 of 54 (permalink) Old 09-20-2016, 11:17 PM
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There's no seal, only the oring around the outside of the little piston that moves inside the slave. You should just be able to buy that oring from a hydraulic shop. I would just take both bits with you to a hydraulic or bearing shop and show them which oring you need.
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post #13 of 54 (permalink) Old 09-20-2016, 11:32 PM
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I didn't read back in the post sorry, There talking about the sheild in the ball bearing, If you take the slave off and you look in to the engine you should see a single row ball bearing. If you cant see the cage of the bearing chances are the bearing still has its sheild (seal) in it. If it doesn't look like the picture below, you will need to pluck the sheild out. A scribe or very small screwdriver will do it, don't jam the scribe in, you will damaged the bearing, just push it in lightly near the inner race of the bearing and pluck the seal out.
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post #14 of 54 (permalink) Old 09-26-2016, 01:39 PM
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So I ended up buying a new slave cylinder and that solved the leakage issue, I could've probably just got the o-ring, but my dad bought the whole unit anyways and sent it over. I wasn't able to bleed the clutch without removing the master cylinder piston and allowing the mineral oil to flow through there. I tried pushing the fluid through with the clutch lever pulled in and out. Neither worked. When I took it all apart then liquid started flowing and I simply reassembled without too much fluid escaping through the top and it works fine. It's been about 5 days since I bled for the last time and replaced the slave cylinder and I haven't had an issue.

I am still wondering about the idle. It seems to have a lot of play through the time I have the bike on. Early on it seems to want to keep dying and by the time it warms up It idles a couple hundred rpms above where it should be. I'll let the clutch grab and it will lower the idle back to nearly dying then if I give it gas it will resume idling high, I'm not really sure what to try and diagnose with this problem. I think it has to do with the float, but also something to do with the clutch plates always grabbing and giving me a false sense of where the rpms actually are.
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post #15 of 54 (permalink) Old 09-26-2016, 11:04 PM
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Sounds like your idle circuit is lean or you have a vac leak somewhere.
Where is your idle mixture screw set at?
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post #16 of 54 (permalink) Old 09-27-2016, 12:21 PM
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I originally set my mixture screw at 2.25 as I had read from many people with my bike, I just changed it to 2.5 and it seems to have had a great effect on the performance of my bike. I could still have some vacuum leak and something else may not be right, but moving it to 2.5 seems to have fixed most of my issues as of now. I can't say too much because I've only ridden my bike twice since I've moved to 2.5, but it feels much better and the idle is much more controlled and has less variation.

I am also having chain slap when I jump something or when I press hard on the shock. Basically whenever the rear shock compresses I hear my chain hitting some other piece. I'm not sure if it's because the chain is too tight, the chain or front sprocket is worn, or what. Could it be that my chain guard that wraps around the front of my swing arm is just worn through and it's actually just hitting the metal? I've read that KTMs of this year range just have chain slap and that's just part of owning the bike. My countershaft seal needs to be replaced I'm pretty sure because they's gook all around the front sprocket and next to the slave cylinder. I don't think that'd have anything to do with the noise, but I'm just pointing that out

The pictures might or might not help
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Last edited by nathanslocum; 09-27-2016 at 12:24 PM. Reason: I tried to flip the pictures but I couldn't figure out how
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post #17 of 54 (permalink) Old 09-27-2016, 10:57 PM
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You may need to jump up a size on your idle jet if it needs more than 2-1/2 turns, the chain does look a bit loose, check and make sure your top chain guide roller is ok and not buggered, its located on the frame above the chain and around about where your left ankle would be. I have also come across people putting to long of bolt in where the subframe bolts to the frame and the chain can slap the bolt. (Similar location)
As for the final drive seal, it could be just an excessive build up of chain lube or it could be the seal, if its not dripping on the ground or dripping while your running, I wouldn't worry about it.
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post #18 of 54 (permalink) Old 09-28-2016, 08:14 PM
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This bike being a 2005, I don't know for sure, but I feel its used the same idle jet thus far and its the right one. I tried adjusting between 2.25 and 2.5 and had varying levels of success but I feel it somehow comes back to the original state. I could just not have the adjustment right, a vacuum leak, the wrong idle jet, or whatever. The bike warms up fine then when I turn the choke off it goes to a really low idle and when I lift my feet of the ground the bike likes to roll slightly forward. I just bled the clutch and put a new slave cylinder in, but the clutch still seems to be grabbing more than I'd like or at least it seems to

I don't believe my bike has a top chain guide roller. I've looked for it on my bike as a replacement and I can't seem to find it on my bike, bikes in pictures, or in replacement catalogs. I think the chain slap is a result of there being too much slack, but I'm not 100% sure. I should probably replace the chain guide near the front sprocket anyways. The chain can reach the sub-frame bolt and it is worn heavily and it's a new bolt because I had to replace it to put the pro moto billet kickstand on there. Would tightening the chain solve that?

I guess I can just pass by the counter shaft drive seal for now.

I've read some and I think it could be warped clutch plates that's pulling the idle down to really low levels.

Last edited by nathanslocum; 09-28-2016 at 10:46 PM. Reason: Read about clutch plates
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post #19 of 54 (permalink) Old 09-28-2016, 11:23 PM
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I think with full suspension travel you will still hit the bolt regardless of whether the chain is tight, the bolt shouldn't protrude out far enough for the chain to contact it, it needs to be flush or close to flush with the back of the nut thats in the hex recess of the frame, you may need to buy a shorter bolt.
I will attach a diagram of the 05 400 frame, the chain guide roller is number (34)
You could have bad clutch grab, the bike shouldn't creep when in gear, do you have nice full resistance in the clutch lever?
(Did you check to see if the bearing behind the slave was open and didn't have the seal in?)
See how you go.
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post #20 of 54 (permalink) Old 09-29-2016, 01:27 PM
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Thank you for your cordial and quick responses, they have been great help to me in trying to figure this all out.

I couldn't find a place where the roller would bolt on, trying to feel or see it. I saw the diagram you attached and it seems like it would, I just can't seem to find it. The sub-frame bolt does come out and is over the chain allowing it to come into contact with it. I could try to shave it down and see where that gets me. I haven't tightened the chain just yet because I don't have wrenched right now, only sockets.

I tried adjusting my idle and I forgot the original position so I then tried to do the manuals guide on it and it seemed to work somewhat then it all went downhill. I turned the silver screw to 1.25 which the manual suggests then turned it counter-clockwise until it idled higher and that didn't work and it kept sputtering. My bike started to overheat so I moved the screw with the black plastic finger tightener to between 2.5 and 2.25 out and just turned the silver one out until the idle was where I wanted it to be. I feel this is completely backwards, or maybe it's right I just don't know, but it works as of now and it takes about 5 minutes to warm up with choke on then it's good to go for the rest of the day.

Surprise, surprise there's something else. I have been having an issue with my lights in that they will just sorta die out when I''m riding down the road. Sometimes they come back on with higher revs and sometimes not. It could just be coincidence. When it goes off it comes back on if I slap the light. It does this for the high and low beam. My bike is also set to only have lights come on when the engine is running. So when it's the light switch does nothing.
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Last edited by nathanslocum; 09-29-2016 at 01:27 PM. Reason: I really don't know why it keeps turning the images around
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