Stock 2017 SuperDuke GT with fuel dongle review - Page 8 - KTM Forums: KTM Motorcycle Forum
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post #71 of 94 (permalink) Old 05-12-2019, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
You're overthinking this way too much. Unless you're putting around like grandma with the throttle barely cracked, there's no way the slight low-speed enrichening the 02 dingles provide can have much effect on fuel consumption, nor can the K&N filter. If the filter is more restrictive than it should be, the mass air sensor will tell the ecu to adjust to keep the mixture closer to ideal and you'd likely get less consumption rather than more. I've run K&N and BMC lifetime filters on a couple different machines and the only difference between those and stock is they can be cleaned and re-oiled rather than tossed in the trash like shrinking stock foam elements. Performance differences can only be quantified on a dyno. The seat of your pants isn't sensitive enough.



Just ride the damned thing.
Excellent comment and very spot on.


I run Rotti intake and PCV with full Akra and I don't notice any difference in fuel consumption if you keep a throttle steady at motorway speeds.

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post #72 of 94 (permalink) Old 05-12-2019, 08:37 AM
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I put dongle's (well I just wacked the correct 50c resistors in the end of o2 plug because I'm a tight a-rse) on my old 990.
Massive improvement. Best mod it had. As for fuel economy it was always terrible, probably worse before the resistors. 15kms/litre (whatever that is in yank language)
Didn't matter whether you were doing 80 klicks, 200 klicks, on the back wheel or not. 15km/l everywhere.
Didn't give a sh-t though as it was fun as f-ck and left a smile on my face from ear to ear.

Gotta agree with the hammer. Just ride the damn thing. Hell, at least you got a decent size fuel tank.

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post #73 of 94 (permalink) Old 05-12-2019, 08:58 AM
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These 1290s are high-performance modern motors; 13:1 compression, short stroke, big bore, dohc, staggered dual-spark, EFI with highly engineered intake and exhaust systems. The Pike's Peak-record SDR was very close to stock and the mods are readily available, but anyone expecting big performance gains without spending big money is fooling themselves. You can smooth out the throttle cheaply without really upping horsepower and the gains to be had with exhaust and intake mods are going to be small compared to dollars spent. What we all need is pretty much there already. Want is a different matter.
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post #74 of 94 (permalink) Old 05-12-2019, 03:05 PM
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Agree completely that the 1290 motor is already super good. The simple cheap mods like dongles go a long way to improving the already good motor output.

And that leads me to wonder how much improvement can be expected from a dyno and a proper setting up. From what I understand (please correct me if I'm wrong) some current day motorbikes have extensive fuel mapping software onboard out the factory, and this can be manipulated without the introduction of a third party gizmo like a Power Commander. If so, the dyno operator would simply use the software the guys at the factory would use to optimize for everyday riding conditions (or the rider's wishes) without the need for emissions compromises.

If I'm talking out my arse here and the SDR has no such thing, do say. Because I am considering this very thing somewhere down the line and knowing whether or not a PCV is necessary for the job as the SDR is wallet draining enough as it is



Edit : Forgot to add the dongle pictures. The reason I opened this thread in the first place The two dongles are located 1) directly above the rear cylinder, under the seat, hiding in plain sight, and 2) behind the little plastic cover you can pop out above the front cylinder on the right side.
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Last edited by Menso; 05-12-2019 at 03:18 PM.
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post #75 of 94 (permalink) Old 05-12-2019, 04:03 PM
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remember its like rendering a picture, if the software is not so good your gonna fark around .
if you dont know the software your gonna mess about.

so its like the best is well known by the user , has all the tools , shortcuts and cheats and also the end result can be presupposed simply by know exactly what that tool does and how it comes out.

give the same guy a laptop and tune ECU which he never learnt and hes stuck why the cable driver isnt found on his pc.

its like that.

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post #76 of 94 (permalink) Old 05-12-2019, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
The simple cheap mods like dongles go a long way to improving the already good motor output.
The 02 dongles only work for part throttle , im almost certain theres no performance gain except the jump between the 02 mapped system and the actual engine load and throttle opening system which is your acceleration.


so if we race 2 new bikes from the lights, they should end up running the same even though one has the 02 dongles,

City cruising and blip jumps and general hooligan stuff where part throttle cruise is equally used as much at full throttle through the gears,then i believe what your feeling is a much nicer bike.The transition between part throttle and gunning it being one of the most important aspects.

Could always be wrong or over exaggerated the facts though.

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post #77 of 94 (permalink) Old 05-12-2019, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
You're overthinking this way too much. Unless you're putting around like grandma with the throttle barely cracked, there's no way the slight low-speed enrichening the 02 dingles provide can have much effect on fuel consumption, nor can the K&N filter. If the filter is more restrictive than it should be, the mass air sensor will tell the ecu to adjust to keep the mixture closer to ideal and you'd likely get less consumption rather than more. I've run K&N and BMC lifetime filters on a couple different machines and the only difference between those and stock is they can be cleaned and re-oiled rather than tossed in the trash like shrinking stock foam elements. Performance differences can only be quantified on a dyno. The seat of your pants isn't sensitive enough.

Just ride the damned thing.

Thanks H..... I'm glad someone thinks I'm thinking .

However I too have been using K&N for 17years on my CBR11XX and know that a thick coating of the oil on the media does affect mileage.

I will start again from oem once I use some more fuel so the tank isn't a clumsy heavy mass to remove - but 1 thing I thought of last night (in between naughty dreams ), was that the copper washers from the O2 removal kit plugs (which I left in place) might also be involved..... ie: I read on a forum somewhere, that car mechanics were putting an extra washer/spacer onto their O2 sensors to reduce hot/lean running issues, even though I don't see why that would work, maybe it does affect the sensor...... so today I'll remove those little copper washers and tomorrow I'll see if that has any effect.

It's all part of the fun...... but I'm 99% certain my K&N was way to heavily oiled out of the box and may be more restrictive than the paper filter...... just a bit too much fuel in the tank to want to hoist it off yet

Might be an issue I caused, acting on a thought bubble and inserting those extra washers onto the O2 sensors ...... or it could be a batch of old fuel from the fuel stations......

..... I'll also check the ram air intakes in case one is blocked..... but the thing performs well so that's unlikely...... I want my 400kms touring range, less than 350 here in Aus is barely acceptable (guys spend all day worrying about fuel stops instead of looking for good coffee stops ).

PS Menso..... I have the dongles too..... yes they smooth out the city traffic experience - but so too does a gearing change to reduce the standard tall gearing feel in traffic...... my SDGT was pretty good but I chose to try the dongles and they worked but were not that much better (for my bike & speed limits etc). I just noticed my usual economy was much lower, so I am checking my mods by going back to stock and starting over....... it's good therapy on a rainy day

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post #78 of 94 (permalink) Old 05-13-2019, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by cors187 View Post


so if we race 2 new bikes from the lights, they should end up running the same even though one has the 02 dongles,

Could always be wrong or over exaggerated the facts though.
Drag racing uses no small-throttle openings, so unless someone is shy about twisting the wick, I doubt if there's be an appreciable difference. I would think you'd already be on the open-loop when you left the line.

A slow race, now, that would be a different proposition. A smoother throttle at small openings would be easier than a jerky one.
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post #79 of 94 (permalink) Old 05-13-2019, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveAu View Post

..... I'll also check the ram air intakes in case one is blocked..... but the thing performs well so that's unlikely...... I want my 400kms touring range, less than 350 here in Aus is barely acceptable (guys spend all day worrying about fuel stops instead of looking for good coffee stops ).
@DaveAu I have been sitting back on this for a while now. I can say, based on my experience, you will get 350km easy ... once you get out of the hills and out of suburbia. While you are pottering around in those locations you will be hard pressed to get better than 15- 16 km/l.

I did 4800 kms in a trip to, in and from Tasmania when the bike was new. I averaged 17.2 km/l and 91 km/h for every second that the engine was running. I recently did 6500 kms to and from Phillip Island MotoGp. I averaged 16.6 km/l and 94 km/h. Both those trips were predominantly off highway roads - low risk high reward roads, if you get my drift. They both included several hours negotiating Melbourne traffic. Even at that rate the fuel range is 350 kms with a 2 liter buffer.

I HAVE been able to get 20 km/l and slightly better on long freeway runs on cruise control at 120km/h. Nabiac to just short of Goulburn is 425km and I needed 21 liters to fill it.

The issue is not your oily air filter, blocked ram jet .. it is the nature of the roads you are riding and the nature of the bike you are riding. In my opinion of course. You can get what you are chasing .. but holy hell it is boring.

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post #80 of 94 (permalink) Old 05-13-2019, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
Drag racing uses no small-throttle openings, so unless someone is shy about twisting the wick, I doubt if there's be an appreciable difference. I would think you'd already be on the open-loop when you left the line.

A slow race, now, that would be a different proposition. A smoother throttle at small openings would be easier than a jerky one.
was just trying to make a point hammy

i think closed loops can be different for different bikes its only data , im sure if youve got the motor on 5k rpm with a little throttle opening its still closed loop.

just trying to point out the difference between floggin ya bike performance and cruising performance

Actually the noise test data on the frame sticker would be always closed loop.

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