Stock 2017 SuperDuke GT with fuel dongle review - Page 9 - KTM Forums: KTM Motorcycle Forum
 25Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #81 of 94 (permalink) Old 05-13-2019, 03:41 PM
Mega Poster
 
Hammerhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Southern Illinois
Posts: 625
Quote:
Originally Posted by cors187 View Post
was just trying to make a point hammy

i think closed loops can be different for different bikes its only data , im sure if youve got the motor on 5k rpm with a little throttle opening its still closed loop.

just trying to point out the difference between floggin ya bike performance and cruising performance

Actually the noise test data on the frame sticker would be always closed loop.
So then the 02 sensors control the normal operation up to 5000 rpm? Should be some enrichening without 'em that far also.
Hammerhead is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #82 of 94 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 01:53 AM
Silver Member
 
DaveAu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 499
Garage
Lightbulb An accidental discovery

...... todays short spin proved that placing a copper washer under the O2 sensor actually does much the same as the O2 fuel dongles.......

On the weekend the GT was almost as smooth at light throttle openings as with O2 dongles, and today, same fuel, Cu washers removed, the GT was back to the sensitive throttle I had prior to doing the O2 removal kit. Unfortunately, fuel cons only improved from 17.3 to 17.4 k/ltr so it's down to either crook fuel/injector cleaner time or the K&N airfilter causing the ecu to richen up the A/F ratio's....... didn't feel like taking the tank off this arvo.... read a bike mag instead... .

So the O2 dongles reduce header temp by 30C/60F from stock, but make the cat run noticeably hotter. The extra Cu washers under the O2 sensors work almost as well at smoothing the low rpm throttle and header temps were still cooler than stock, and the cat didn't seem to run hotter either..... .. sort of a middle ground option.

PS I'm guessing the extra washer's raise the O2 probe's slightly out of the exhaust gas flow, which prob alters the signal sent to the ecu (now I'm really guessing)....... so this means that the fuel dongles are not really needed, unless you are fitting a full system that does not have O2 sensor ports in the headers. (sort of like not needing a dongle for the charcoal canister removal - if you leave the purge valve in place but plug the vacuum lines.... like I had to after my Ch dongle fried iteself).

Anyway, the car guys had worked this one out ages ago and I always wondered if it would work on our systems ......


Current bikes ...
017 1290 SDGT - 12,400kms
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

05 CBR1100XX Blue - 130k garage ornament
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Sadly departed as trade-ins..
014 caponord 1200TP - 39k
02 CBR1100XX Black - 54k
94 FZR1000 Genisis - 150k
93 FZR1000 Genisis - 24k
88 FJ 1200 - 84k
85 FJ 1100 - 54k
(+XS1100P..... appx 10k)
84 VF1000F - 30k
(+CX500 & VF750S..... appx 30k)
81 Z1000J1 - 55k
79 Z1000ST - 36k
78 CB750F2 - 27k
74 CB360T - 36k
CB175 pre licence learner in 1974

Last edited by DaveAu; 05-14-2019 at 02:09 AM.
DaveAu is offline  
post #83 of 94 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 02:17 AM
Silver Member
 
DaveAu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 499
Garage
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by AusPete View Post
@DaveAu I have been sitting back on this for a while now. I can say, based on my experience, you will get 350km easy ... once you get out of the hills and out of suburbia. While you are pottering around in those locations you will be hard pressed to get better than 15- 16 km/l.

I did 4800 kms in a trip to, in and from Tasmania when the bike was new. I averaged 17.2 km/l and 91 km/h for every second that the engine was running. I recently did 6500 kms to and from Phillip Island MotoGp. I averaged 16.6 km/l and 94 km/h. Both those trips were predominantly off highway roads - low risk high reward roads, if you get my drift. They both included several hours negotiating Melbourne traffic. Even at that rate the fuel range is 350 kms with a 2 liter buffer.

I HAVE been able to get 20 km/l and slightly better on long freeway runs on cruise control at 120km/h. Nabiac to just short of Goulburn is 425km and I needed 21 liters to fill it.

The issue is not your oily air filter, blocked ram jet .. it is the nature of the roads you are riding and the nature of the bike you are riding. In my opinion of course. You can get what you are chasing .. but holy hell it is boring.

Cheers Aus pete....... know all about that...... just noticed mine has dropped economy recently - comparable test roads and conditions..... freeway sections etc etc ....... it's probably crap fuel from servo's as the fuel price has gone up to $1.68 for 91 and approx $1.90 for 95, so people are not using 95 quickly enough to keep the servo supply fresh........ but what the heck, I'll chuck in the paper filter and start from square one again....... big accidental find was the effect those extra washers had on the O2 probes....... very similar to the O2 fuel dongles!


Current bikes ...
017 1290 SDGT - 12,400kms
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

05 CBR1100XX Blue - 130k garage ornament
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Sadly departed as trade-ins..
014 caponord 1200TP - 39k
02 CBR1100XX Black - 54k
94 FZR1000 Genisis - 150k
93 FZR1000 Genisis - 24k
88 FJ 1200 - 84k
85 FJ 1100 - 54k
(+XS1100P..... appx 10k)
84 VF1000F - 30k
(+CX500 & VF750S..... appx 30k)
81 Z1000J1 - 55k
79 Z1000ST - 36k
78 CB750F2 - 27k
74 CB360T - 36k
CB175 pre licence learner in 1974
DaveAu is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #84 of 94 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 03:23 AM
Full Throttle
 
cors187's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 5,085
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post
So then the 02 sensors control the normal operation up to 5000 rpm? Should be some enrichening without 'em that far also.
I think the ecu is complicated, especially one that's not cracked.

But it's very logical to pass all test on a system that giving the rev and using fark all fuel.
A closed loop system.

What's your frame sticker say about the noise @Revs data? Cheers

2008 1190 RC8
2007 690 SM

racers toolbox thread

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
cors187 is online now  
post #85 of 94 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 06:41 AM
Mega Poster
 
Hammerhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Southern Illinois
Posts: 625
Quote:
Originally Posted by cors187 View Post
I think the ecu is complicated, especially one that's not cracked.

But it's very logical to pass all test on a system that giving the rev and using fark all fuel.
A closed loop system.

What's your frame sticker say about the noise @Revs data? Cheers
Doesn't matter what the sticker says, the exhaust servo's in a box.
Hammerhead is offline  
post #86 of 94 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 07:26 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Northwest IN, USA
Posts: 77
After reading all of this, I have to say that I am very happy with my Open Flash Tablet and the tune I installed, lol.
CRFan1 is offline  
post #87 of 94 (permalink) Old 05-14-2019, 10:57 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 23
Dave or anyone, do you know the size of Cu washer needed to fit under the sensor? I want to try this!
Thumper1500 is online now  
post #88 of 94 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 01:32 AM
Silver Member
 
DaveAu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 499
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper1500 View Post
Dave or anyone, do you know the size of Cu washer needed to fit under the sensor? I want to try this!
Cheers Thumper...... The washers were the ones that came with the plugs for the O2 removal kit so out with the verniers & they are 12mm ID x 17mm OD x 2mm TH.

I put them onto the O2 sensors with the original washers - no idea what I was doing, but with both oem washer & the Cu washer from the plug kit it seemed to work as good as the dongles & plugs...... maybe I should have only used the Cu washer (?)..... I don't know, and I had the K&N filter in my GT at the time.

Be glad to hear if you find similar results....... and if anybody knows why this works or if there are any problems it might cause.

I was only looking for my usual fuel economy and the washers didn't change anything.... so once I get that economy back to normal, I might even give the washers another test...... it's all probably down to old fuel at the servo's but since I have reserve fuel weight i might as well play scientist and lift the tank


Current bikes ...
017 1290 SDGT - 12,400kms
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

05 CBR1100XX Blue - 130k garage ornament
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Sadly departed as trade-ins..
014 caponord 1200TP - 39k
02 CBR1100XX Black - 54k
94 FZR1000 Genisis - 150k
93 FZR1000 Genisis - 24k
88 FJ 1200 - 84k
85 FJ 1100 - 54k
(+XS1100P..... appx 10k)
84 VF1000F - 30k
(+CX500 & VF750S..... appx 30k)
81 Z1000J1 - 55k
79 Z1000ST - 36k
78 CB750F2 - 27k
74 CB360T - 36k
CB175 pre licence learner in 1974

Last edited by DaveAu; 05-15-2019 at 01:39 AM.
DaveAu is offline  
post #89 of 94 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 01:51 AM
Silver Member
 
DaveAu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 499
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by CRFan1 View Post
After reading all of this, I have to say that I am very happy with my Open Flash Tablet and the tune I installed, lol.
Great..... but what are your performance & economy figures just for info?

I haven't got any problem with the fuel dongles..... just to clarify the story..... i just noticed a sudden change to my average fuel readouts over several recent top ups..... so I'm thinking it's a local fuel issue, but since it's a lottery choosing a servo that might have fresh 95 octane, i figure I'll do it properly and start with oem filter etc and then quickly add the mods once I've got a tank of fuel that is yielding the figures I observed over the 12,000kms I've put on my GT....... (I'm no newbie to riding a twin or monitoring consumption figs ..... and I'm not a slowcoach - except when the camera's are out or the road is slippery etc). Just curious and with time on my hands to play mechanic...... .

Made one scientific discovery already eh....... the thicker washer under the O2 sensor....... pending independent confirmation .


Current bikes ...
017 1290 SDGT - 12,400kms
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

05 CBR1100XX Blue - 130k garage ornament
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Sadly departed as trade-ins..
014 caponord 1200TP - 39k
02 CBR1100XX Black - 54k
94 FZR1000 Genisis - 150k
93 FZR1000 Genisis - 24k
88 FJ 1200 - 84k
85 FJ 1100 - 54k
(+XS1100P..... appx 10k)
84 VF1000F - 30k
(+CX500 & VF750S..... appx 30k)
81 Z1000J1 - 55k
79 Z1000ST - 36k
78 CB750F2 - 27k
74 CB360T - 36k
CB175 pre licence learner in 1974
DaveAu is offline  
post #90 of 94 (permalink) Old 05-15-2019, 07:16 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Northwest IN, USA
Posts: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveAu View Post
Great..... but what are your performance & economy figures just for info?

I haven't got any problem with the fuel dongles..... just to clarify the story..... i just noticed a sudden change to my average fuel readouts over several recent top ups..... so I'm thinking it's a local fuel issue, but since it's a lottery choosing a servo that might have fresh 95 octane, i figure I'll do it properly and start with oem filter etc and then quickly add the mods once I've got a tank of fuel that is yielding the figures I observed over the 12,000kms I've put on my GT....... (I'm no newbie to riding a twin or monitoring consumption figs ..... and I'm not a slowcoach - except when the camera's are out or the road is slippery etc). Just curious and with time on my hands to play mechanic...... .

Made one scientific discovery already eh....... the thicker washer under the O2 sensor....... pending independent confirmation .

Well, the OFT still utilizes the O2's (or at least you leave them hooked up). Low speed and part throttle drivability of the bike is fantastic. Fuel mileage wise I get 32-35 MPG in the city and about 39-40 MPG if cruising steady state on a highway, etc.
CRFan1 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the KTM Forums: KTM Motorcycle Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2017 SuperDuke GT OTD? Dominik78 Super Duke 4 08-06-2018 05:31 PM
2017 Superduke GT Hand Guards OBL Super Duke 7 08-29-2017 12:32 PM
1997 ktm duke 620 help>>> Bangin-gmc Duke 2 03-06-2016 11:16 PM
2017 KTM 1290 Super Duke GT First Ride Review Motorcycle.com KTM Forums News 0 03-04-2016 03:05 PM
<<<2013 Duke 690 R>>> tjobbie Bike & Rider of the Season 2 09-07-2015 06:20 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome