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Discussion Starter #1
Went PCV, don't need these anymore. DM me to purchase either:

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Interested in your experience with the PCV vs. these 2 options. I'm using the Booster plug and the Duke runs very well indeed- but always interested in what's out there!
 

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I've done both (on different bikes), and I'm much happier with the booster plug I put on my Duke. If you're looking for that last ounce of performance, the PCV is more tunable, or better yet, go for something like the Rapidbike system (don't know if they support the Duke though). If you just want to richen things up a bit from the OEM emissions mandated fuel map, you'll be happier with the booster plug. Not a salesman, no affiliation and so on, just my experience.
 

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I've done both (on different bikes), and I'm much happier with the booster plug I put on my Duke. If you're looking for that last ounce of performance, the PCV is more tunable, or better yet, go for something like the Rapidbike system (don't know if they support the Duke though). If you just want to richen things up a bit from the OEM emissions mandated fuel map, you'll be happier with the booster plug. Not a salesman, no affiliation and so on, just my experience.
Thanks. I went with the booster plug with my 2018, LeoVince mid-pipe and Delkovic CF can. Very happy with the overall setup, seems to pull from down low better than stock and no popping on decel. I haven't done any airbox changes, it might require more tuning if I did.
 

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Good timeing for this post. Did you go PVC with AutoTune? I'm trying to figure out if I still need KevsO2 mod with the PVC. My understanding is that with the base PCV module, the low RPM jerking is still remedied with the O2 mod, but once you go autotune and remove the stock O2 sensor, the mod is not necessary.

I have no idea though and am trying to figure it out lol. I have no clue about anything to do with tuning and it's like learning a whole new language to me....

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Hey Team,

There is so much confusion around the D690 and open/closed loop map tuning. It's all shrouded in mystery and folklore, or so it seems. After reading years of posts, speaking with Kev, and testing the Booster plug, Kev's fuel, and O2 mods, and now the PCV here is my quick recap.

O2 Mod - Used stock or can be paired with PCV for the best of both worlds solution, as the PVC can negotiate the open-loop tuning for fuel and ignition, while the O2 Mod cleans up the closed-loop/trasition to open-loop jerkiness.

Fuel Mod - Can be used to richen the overall map via the temp sensor. This was a great little mod, and with the dial that Kev has designed, you can somewhat fine-tune the fuel enrichment until the butt dyno feels right. This held me over for a long time, while I modded by 690, as I could continue to increase fuel.

BoosterPlug - This is essentially the same thing as Kev's fuel mod, however, it's set to a fixed 6% increase in fuel, so you can't adjust it. The one aspect about the BoosterPlug that is really nice is the internal temp sensor, which is actively adjusting to match the outside air temp to give you the best results compared to Kev's which does not. However, at a capped 6% increase you're limited on the modification to the intake/exhaust that this can handle.

PCV - Full tunability to fuel and ignition on the open-loop map. Kev makes some strong points about not going autotune here, and that the 690 will run it's best with a traditional custom dyno map. He explains it in great detail, and how the autotune is constantly throwing false trims which make the map slightly less accurate, etc. I don't want to butcher the details, but just trust me. He has tested this ad nauseam.

After going decat, slip-on, K&N, and DNA stage 2 I wanted to get the fueling perfect. The PCV also gave me the option to add a quick shifter, so it was a win-win! 🏴‍☠️

As you can see from the below D690 PCV map for the above mods, these adjustments are way outside a BoosterPlug/Fuel Mod's range of effectiveness.

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Hey Team,

There is so much confusion around the D690 and open/closed loop map tuning. It's all shrouded in mystery and folklore, or so it seems. After reading years of posts, speaking with Kev, and testing the Booster plug, Kev's fuel, and O2 mods, and now the PCV here is my quick recap.

O2 Mod - Used stock or can be paired with PCV for the best of both worlds solution, as the PVC can negotiate the open-loop tuning for fuel and ignition, while the O2 Mod cleans up the closed-loop/trasition to open-loop jerkiness.

Fuel Mod - Can be used to richen the overall map via the temp sensor. This was a great little mod, and with the dial that Kev has designed, you can somewhat fine-tune the fuel enrichment until the butt dyno feels right. This held me over for a long time, while I modded by 690, as I could continue to increase fuel.

BoosterPlug - This is essentially the same thing as Kev's fuel mod, however, it's set to a fixed 6% increase in fuel, so you can't adjust it. The one aspect about the BoosterPlug that is really nice is the internal temp sensor, which is actively adjusting to match the outside air temp to give you the best results compared to Kev's which does not. However, at a capped 6% increase you're limited on the modification to the intake/exhaust that this can handle.

PCV - Full tunability to fuel and ignition on the open-loop map. Kev makes some strong points about not going autotune here, and that the 690 will run it's best with a traditional custom dyno map. He explains it in great detail, and how the autotune is constantly throwing false trims which make the map slightly less accurate, etc. I don't want to butcher the details, but just trust me. He has tested this ad nauseam.

After going decat, slip-on, K&N, and DNA stage 2 I wanted to get the fueling perfect. The PCV also gave me the option to add a quick shifter, so it was a win-win!

As you can see from the below D690 PCV map for the above mods, these adjustments are way outside a BoosterPlug/Fuel Mod's range of effectiveness.

View attachment 97375
Interesting. Thanks for this. I have been talking with Rottweiler and they pre-install maps according to what mods you've made to your bike (Dyno-Jets maps are pretty ****ty). They told me they don't have one specific for addition of the DNA S2 on top of my other mods but they could get close and let autotune would fill in the gaps.

Rottweiler also includes a fueling dongle and recommend removing and plugging stock O2 sensor afterwards, whether running PCV or not.

Can you remove the O2 sensor with Kev's O2 mod? That one seems more of an online set up? Does the rottweiler dongle achieve the exact same result as Kev's O2 mod?

Man, fueling and tuning is so complicated, and there is no dyno bike tuner anywhere near me....

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Discussion Starter #8
Rottweiler also includes a fueling dongle and recommend removing and plugging stock O2 sensor afterwards, whether running PCV or not.

Can you remove the O2 sensor with Kev's O2 mod? Does that one seem more of an online set up? Does the rottweiler dongle achieve the exact same result as Kev's O2 mod?
I like Rottweiler, but they don't know what they are talking about. Do your research. They push canned tunes out the door to clueless people. Kev is the thought matter expert here, with many years tuning A/F ratios. I'm going to default to his wisdom. Here is what Kev said, when asked about the O2 controller paired with the PCV and autotune:

"Dynojets O2 eliminator connected & the O2 sensor disconnected the A/F ratio in the closed-loop is not eliminated or turned off it is fixed @ approx. 14:1 which is KTM's default mode, we Dyno tested this on the 690, the reason they fix the closed-loop is so it reduces the correcting % of A/F in the open-loop mapping but in real life, dyno testing the closed-loop is not eliminated it still runs but with a fixed setting at a far richer A/F ratio compared to 14.7:1.

When you map the open-loop mapping with the PCV you map at 13.2:1, there is still a jump between open & closed loop maps if the A/F ratios are 13.2:1 open to 14:1 closed when using an eliminator, we could measure this with part throttles on light Dyno braking.

Using the O2 controller will always keep the closed-loop A/F ratio at 13.6:1 which is a lot closer to 13.2 than with the eliminator at 14:1. It will compensate for any A/F alteration using different fuels from different Petrol stations. A lot of guys report when fixing the closed-loop A/F ratio their bikes run great one day & next day when weather condition change the bike runs rough or less as crisp.

Also when eliminating the closed-loop O2 sensor with Dynojet eliminator you are removing the only source to tune the bike in real-time at any altitude & for different fuel blends & different conditions, the O2 sensor can fine-tune the closed-loop when in operation all the time, when eliminated with an eliminator the map closed loop A/F ratio is pegged & will not fine-tune the bike at part throttles.

The ECU also uses the feedback voltage from the O2 sensor for the L Trim mapping in the ECU which is cylinder intake Pressure/RPM,

Running an Auto all the time does not give you a good map, have a read on all the testing I did between custom-built Dyno maps & running an Auto-Tune. http://www.ktmsmt.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=6888&p=42781#p42781"
 

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I like Rottweiler, but they don't know what they are talking about. Do your research. They push canned tunes out the door to clueless people. Kev is the thought matter expert here, with many years tuning A/F ratios. I'm going to default to his wisdom. Here is what Kev said, when asked about the O2 controller paired with the PCV and autotune:

"Dynojets O2 eliminator connected & the O2 sensor disconnected the A/F ratio in the closed-loop is not eliminated or turned off it is fixed @ approx. 14:1 which is KTM's default mode, we Dyno tested this on the 690, the reason they fix the closed-loop is so it reduces the correcting % of A/F in the open-loop mapping but in real life, dyno testing the closed-loop is not eliminated it still runs but with a fixed setting at a far richer A/F ratio compared to 14.7:1.

When you map the open-loop mapping with the PCV you map at 13.2:1, there is still a jump between open & closed loop maps if the A/F ratios are 13.2:1 open to 14:1 closed when using an eliminator, we could measure this with part throttles on light Dyno braking.

Using the O2 controller will always keep the closed-loop A/F ratio at 13.6:1 which is a lot closer to 13.2 than with the eliminator at 14:1. It will compensate for any A/F alteration using different fuels from different Petrol stations. A lot of guys report when fixing the closed-loop A/F ratio their bikes run great one day & next day when weather condition change the bike runs rough or less as crisp.

Also when eliminating the closed-loop O2 sensor with Dynojet eliminator you are removing the only source to tune the bike in real-time at any altitude & for different fuel blends & different conditions, the O2 sensor can fine-tune the closed-loop when in operation all the time, when eliminated with an eliminator the map closed loop A/F ratio is pegged & will not fine-tune the bike at part throttles.

The ECU also uses the feedback voltage from the O2 sensor for the L Trim mapping in the ECU which is cylinder intake Pressure/RPM,

Running an Auto all the time does not give you a good map, have a read on all the testing I did between custom-built Dyno maps & running an Auto-Tune. http://www.ktmsmt.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=6888&p=42781#p42781"
Man, thank you so much for this info. Incredible stuff. I've read tonnes but I feel like a 6 year old in an advanced physics class. Too dumb to get it. All I want is my bike not to run too lean.

So basically the Rottweiler fuel dongle just keeps the AF ratio consistent at all times whereas KevsO2 mod uses the stock O2 sensor information to vary AF ratio but keep it richer than stock in order to stop the low speed jerking etc?

Right now I have a PCV mapped to my bikes current mods from Rottweiler but haven't installed it yet. I also have autotune on the bench but haven't had the bung welded to my header or anything. I also have Kev's O2 mod installed, and the Rottweiler fuel dongle on the bench.

Now knowing that you need the stock O2 sensor to use KevsO2 mod, is there any point at all in having the bung installed for the AutoTune? I'm assuming once autotune bung and DJ 02 sensor are installed, you have to disconnect the stock O2 sensor.

Maybe I'll install the PCV I have here without the AutoTune and leave Kev's O2 mod hooked up and see how she runs. Possibly sell the AutoTune as it's brand new in the box.

My mods are Akra Slip On (no db killer), K&N primary filter and DNA stage 2 filter. I still have my CAT as I don't want too much noise. That said I would like to be able to try no CAT with DB killer installed etc.... It looks like the only difference b/W your bike and mine is that you have no CAT. I should screen shot the map that Rottweiler installed on my PVC to see how it compares to yours. Just looking at your pics it's way way different.

This is all so friggin confusing for me and I went with Rottweiler cause they have a reputation for knowing these bikes. I figured everything would be plug and play and I'd be riding happily into the sunset! It's never that easy though!



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This is all so friggin confusing for me and I went with Rottweiler cause they have a reputation for knowing these bikes. I figured everything would be plug and play and I'd be riding happily into the sunset! It's never that easy though!
you need to weld in a new 02 bung for the pcV wideband.Im sure you will get it right with flogging your bike through the revs , but after all the mods if the bike is a little grumpy off idle, you could use the 02 system to trick the bike as you will still have a 02 sensor thread not used
But you really want to priority the install, hard revving bike needed, do the pcV
 

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you need to weld in a new 02 bung for the pcV wideband.Im sure you will get it right with flogging your bike through the revs , but after all the mods if the bike is a little grumpy off idle, you could use the 02 system to trick the bike as you will still have a 02 sensor thread not used
But you really want to priority the install, hard revving bike needed, do the pcV
No bung for PVC alone. Bung is used with the AutoTune. This is where the problem is as KEVs O2 mod requires stock O2 sensor and is superior to the Rottweiler Fuel dongle as I understand.

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thats if you want to play with autotune
Yep. I have the auto tune kit but am Leary to install at this point. It Came with 18mm bung but the whole issue here is that there is info that AutoTune is no good for these bikes. Plus you can't use KevsO2 mod with it, which is a bummer cause it's an awesome mod. Have to go Rottweiler fuel dongle which keeps AFR a
Consistent as opposed to variable based on O2 sensor input like Kev's mod.

The PCV won't help the low speed jerking and leanness, which is where Kevs mod shines.

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Have to go Rottweiler fuel dongle which keeps AFR a
Consistent as opposed to variable based on O2 sensor input like Kev's mod.
I cant see a problem running kevs or the dongles, its all just whack the throttle from a part throttle cruise scenario, you may not be able to tell the difference..
Or what am i missing?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
This is where the problem is as KEVs O2 mod requires stock O2 sensor and is superior to the Rottweiler Fuel dongle as I understand.
Now you're getting it! ;)

Next steps for you: Keep the 02 mod installed. Install PCV by itself, without autotune. Try the Rottweiler canned tune and see how she runs. I've heard decent things about there custom order tunes based on modifications. My buddy is running one on his 690 enduro in Socal and says the bike is running near perfect. Their tune should be somewhat close, prob like 85 - 90% to where you want to be. The bike will feel amazing and have more power. Don't forget, I/we are talking about getting the A/F near "perfect". Don't get lost in the weeds here. Glad I could help get you sorted.

To anyone else: These things are still FOR SALE! 😂
 

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Now you're getting it! ;)

Next steps for you: Keep the 02 mod installed. Install PCV by itself, without autotune. Try the Rottweiler canned tune and see how she runs. I've heard decent things about there custom order tunes based on modifications. My buddy is running one on his 690 enduro in Socal and says the bike is running near perfect. Their tune should be somewhat close, prob like 85 - 90% to where you want to be. The bike will feel amazing and have more power. Don't forget, I/we are talking about getting the A/F near "perfect". Don't get lost in the weeds here. Glad I could help get you sorted.

To anyone else: These things are still FOR SALE!
Sorry for thread jacking bud, but I much appreciate your information and opportunities to learn!

After reading for hours, your few quick posts got me sorted I think. I owe you a beer!

Its hard to find machine shops to deal with bikes in my area and I have an appointment to have the dongle put in the header on Monday at a custom chopper builder a few towns over. I'm still going to do it, but will get a cap for it for now and try the PCV boxed tune with KevsO2 mod. I also found out that there's a shop with a dyno for DJ here as well, but it's a Harley shop and they generally don't like to deal with us folk who enjoy good motorcycles.

Yes, I get way too into the weeds. I just want a good running bike that isn't lean and I'm happy. I ain't a racer or hero!!! Haha.

Anyhow thanks again man. Much appreciated.

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I was under the impression the beauty to kevs controller was he was using the 02 to keep 13.6 as a standard, but the dongles run a standard fuel so it might be in or out of the standard.
Reading up on what Kev says, his O2 dongle adjusts based on O2 readings whereas the Rottweiler dongles keep AFR at ~14.1/1 the entire time. Hence Kev's mod being much superior.

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