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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all! Not one to post on forums much but I figured since this is a topic I don't feel there is much info out there about I thought I'd start one. Especially since I am having issues getting to the bottom of it myself. Basically I have a KTM 125 SX 2013 Model with WP CC forks at the front. I installed Racetech Gold Valves all round front and rear. With G2R Style base valve for the forks. Also installed a rebound separator valve and Racetech bladder in the rear. Since then I have probably never had a point where I have been fully happy with the setup. And the service from Racetech isn't great here in Aus. My issue is that the forks especially have always felt harsh and like there is way to much movement at the bars hitting bumps. But also feels like the bottom resistance could be better. The back is pretty much the same though I would have less complaints about it. But still doesn't track or grip as well as I think it should. And bottoms to easily. I'm wondering if there is anyone familiar with this suspension and the Racetech valves. And would be able to see any straight up issues with the stacks supplied. I have attached documents with the info I supplied Racetech regarding weight and riding style, and the stacks they supplied based on that. But I'm not sure if they will appear as I am hoping. I am running slightly stiffer springs than in the initial recommendation but they said this wouldn't require changes in the stack. Which I find hard to believe. And I also spoke briefly with a suspension expert in Aus. Who said the problem was more than likely at the mid valve. But didn't want to disclose more without me paying him to do the work. I'd also just like to note that I have never pulled the forks apart to find that the inner cart rod does not extend all the way. And I have never found the valves spinning freely after disassembly. So I belief my procedure for rebuilding the forks is correct and they function correctly. Any help would be greatly appreciated! I feel this info will be good to have out there online if it can be resolved in some way. Look forward to hearing from you all!
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Here are the stacks just incase the attached filed can't be opened.

Forks:
G2R Base Valve Comp:
2x .15x17
2x .10x12
1x .15x24
9x .10x24
.10x22
.10x20
.10x19
.10x18
.10x17
.10x16
.10x15
.10x14
.10x13
Mid Valve:
2x .10x20
.10x18
.10x14
.10x12
.30x10
.10x12
.15x12
.20x14
Float: 0.30
Rebound:
3x .10x20
.10x12
.10x18
.10x16
.10x14
.10x12
.10x11
.30x10
Rebound Bleed: 1.3mm
Oil Level: 380cc 5wt

WP Shock:
Comp:
9x .20x44
.15x28
.25x44
.25x42
.25x40
.25x38
.25x36
.25x34
.25x32
.25x30
.25x28
.25x26
.25x24
.30x22
.25x21
Rebound:
3x .20x40
.10x26
.25x40
.25x38
.25x36
.25x34
.30x32
.30x30
.30x28
.30x26
.30x24
.25x23

Piston Bleed: 1.6mm
Rebound Separator Bleed: 2.8mm
5wt Oil
 

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It's a high risk gamble trying to tune someone's suspension for them. This is one reason all good suspension techs have my respect and sometimes my deepest sympathy. My shop was race tech service center back in the day and I got a small taste of what modern day suspension shops get a full diet of from riders on a daily basis. Without actually seeing how the bike and rider interact it is difficult to diagnose a complaint without rider feedback that is translatable to your settings. Your mid stroke fork harshness and lack of bottoming resistance is common complaint for stock fork. I have heard of some gold valve owners complaining of the same problem without any explanation as to why. The compression is taken out of the stack and should be adjustable mid stroke on RT valve. Bottoming is another circuit. The more common feedback for the RT valving was plush ride, and some moto guys hate them for that reason. The problem with your tune is your preferences and expectations can be met by your RT components, you are just lost from where to start. The trouble with getting it perfect for your riding style and preferences may take considerable suspension fluid spills on your shop floor from removal and tuning your components. Using a preset tune or borrowing a tune setting from another rider may not be helpful to your settings but could at least be a starting point. Calling RT direct may be more helpful than phoning a RT service center because they would likely want to start with their proprietary starting settings, and rightfully so because they did the development and research and would like to recover their investment for the time dedicated to its development and testing.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
It's a high risk gamble trying to tune someone's suspension for them. This is one reason all good suspension techs have my respect and sometimes my deepest sympathy. My shop was race tech service center back in the day and I got a small taste of what modern day suspension shops get a full diet of from riders on a daily basis. Without actually seeing how the bike and rider interact it is difficult to diagnose a complaint without rider feedback that is translatable to your settings. Your mid stroke fork harshness and lack of bottoming resistance is common complaint for stock fork. I have heard of some gold valve owners complaining of the same problem without any explanation as to why. The compression is taken out of the stack and should be adjustable mid stroke on RT valve. Bottoming is another circuit. The more common feedback for the RT valving was plush ride, and some moto guys hate them for that reason. The problem with your tune is your preferences and expectations can be met by your RT components, you are just lost from where to start. The trouble with getting it perfect for your riding style and preferences may take considerable suspension fluid spills on your shop floor from removal and tuning your components. Using a preset tune or borrowing a tune setting from another rider may not be helpful to your settings but could at least be a starting point. Calling RT direct may be more helpful than phoning a RT service center because they would likely want to start with their proprietary starting settings, and rightfully so because they did the development and research and would like to recover their investment for the time dedicated to its development and testing.
Appreciate your reply and I 100% Agree. By no means do I think it's a easy job to do. Especially when every customer probably thinks it's your problem to get them perfect first go. I very much understand that suspension settings are very much rider dependent and takes lots of experimenting or 'dialing in'. But I guess my issue is that I am have never felt the bike has performed in anyway better than the stock stuff. I'm not a pro rider, barely a amateur and would expect to notice immediate improvements with the racetech valves and the proprietary settings given to me. But by no means would I expect it to be right for me yet. I have probably pulled these forks apart 30 times since installing the racetech components. I have tried many different fixes to ensure the forks are definitely functioning correctly. And quiet a few slight variations to the stacks. My issue I guess is that when emailing racetech in america. They automaticaly assume that there is nothing wrong with the supplied valving and tell me the forks are installed incorrectly. What I am really after and have said this to racetech. Is a direction to go based on my complaints of the setup. I am happy to pull the forks apart 20 more times. But I feel that the stack is significantly wrong and hence don't want to just assume the change I should try. If I was making a slightly educated guess. I would say the mid valve needs more float but a slightly stiffer stack for after the float opens. But again that is just a guess based on a limited amount of knowledge. And using base logic which I know doesn't apply to shim stacks all that well. I am curious about your comment that the bottom resistance is affected by a different circuit? What do you mean by that?
 

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Upon full stroke through compression stack the oil is forced through an additional restriction at the end of stroke. It works like your carburetor needle and has a taper which restricts oil flow. Usually referred to as bottoming cone because it is shaped like a cone
 

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Hello all! Not one to post on forums much but I figured since this is a topic I don't feel there is much info out there about I thought I'd start one. Especially since I am having issues getting to the bottom of it myself. Basically I have a KTM 125 SX 2013 Model with WP CC forks at the front. I installed Racetech Gold Valves all round front and rear. With G2R Style base valve for the forks. Also installed a rebound separator valve and Racetech bladder in the rear. Since then I have probably never had a point where I have been fully happy with the setup. And the service from Racetech isn't great here in Aus. My issue is that the forks especially have always felt harsh and like there is way to much movement at the bars hitting bumps. But also feels like the bottom resistance could be better. The back is pretty much the same though I would have less complaints about it. But still doesn't track or grip as well as I think it should. And bottoms to easily. I'm wondering if there is anyone familiar with this suspension and the Racetech valves. And would be able to see any straight up issues with the stacks supplied. I have attached documents with the info I supplied Racetech regarding weight and riding style, and the stacks they supplied based on that. But I'm not sure if they will appear as I am hoping. I am running slightly stiffer springs than in the initial recommendation but they said this wouldn't require changes in the stack. Which I find hard to believe. And I also spoke briefly with a suspension expert in Aus. Who said the problem was more than likely at the mid valve. But didn't want to disclose more without me paying him to do the work. I'd also just like to note that I have never pulled the forks apart to find that the inner cart rod does not extend all the way. And I have never found the valves spinning freely after disassembly. So I belief my procedure for rebuilding the forks is correct and they function correctly. Any help would be greatly appreciated! I feel this info will be good to have out there online if it can be resolved in some way. Look forward to hearing from you all!
Hit up Terry Hay from shock treatment in Sydney. Hes a supplier for race tech and has tons of info on susp.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Upon full stroke through compression stack the oil is forced through an additional restriction at the end of stroke. It works like your carburetor needle and has a taper which restricts oil flow. Usually referred to as bottoming cone because it is shaped like a cone
Ahhhh didn't realise you where talking about the actual bottoming device. I was aware that was a different circuit activated upon bottoming. But I was more so meaning that it gets into the bottoming cone to early. Not that the bottoming feels abrupt. Although it does a little. I just feel like I'll do a pretty small flat landing and the stroke indicator(rubber o ring) is already completely at the bottom of the fork.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I thought that the only way a consumer could modify the actual bottoming circuit would be to to put a huck valve in? I have heard of people drilling holes in the bottoming cone to make it feel plusher upon bottoming. But that doesn't sound like the right approach to me.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
See I feel like this shim stack for the mid valve would be less harsh and more progressive?
4x .10x20
.10x18
.10x16
.10x14
.10x10
.20x17
.15x14

Float 0.35mm

Vs previous

Mid Valve:
2x .10x20
.10x18
.10x14
.10x12
.30x10
.10x12
.15x12
.20x14

Float 0.30mm
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Actually I bought some Dal soggios few years back and they were just too stiff for me. Terry helped me through e mail on a setting that would work for me.
Just emailed them this morning. Hopefully they are up for some discussion regarding my issues. Obviously you where pretty happy with the changes they recommended??
 

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Just emailed them this morning. Hopefully they are up for some discussion regarding my issues. Obviously you where pretty happy with the changes they recommended??
I went to him through KTM Talk. Tons of dirt bike info. Terry is a member that helps lots of members. I’m still using his valving recommendations .
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I also had another thought. With the G2R Gold Valve you can preload the stack a little. I was thinking I could preload the stack by .05 and then change the .15 face shim to a .10? Decreased deflection? and still holds it self closed well to begin with would be what I imagine could be the result??
 
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