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I disagree, if a racer were to ask a team manufacturer what the heck a particular control does, you can bet the manufacturer would stumble all over itself to explain. When I'm the rider and someone sells me something, generally I expect to know what I'm are getting. Now, it seems, it is okay for manufacturers, not just KTM, to say, hey, with this motorcycle you get Traction Control. What the heck is that, what does it do? Well ... we really don't want to tell you, because it's a trade secret, or it isn't standardized, or gives away our competitive edge. Oh, here's the on/off button!

Why don't we need to know what MTC does? Doesn't it affect how we ride a motorcycle? It's bad enough that all the manufacturers seems to be in collusion with this practice of not sharing technical specs. But it is worse, to me, that buyers/riders make the same excuses and give the same pass. Without questioning it, it just allows the sales practices to continue.
I don't get it. I was stating that TC has not yet become standardized and you disagree....? There's no point here. Standardization of TC has not yet occurred and you are not happy. These are two separate things, but considering the state of the world, the whole "KTM doesn't want us to know what they're really doing!" comes off as trash, clickbait thinking. Cut it out. That said, I agree with you but not the "How dare they!" part.
 

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I'll guarantee Rossi knows more about TC than anyone on this forum. People that want to compete and win and are willing to risk their lives to do so do not leave data on the table and ignore it. I have a friend that worked as an engineer for a national factory team. We have discussed this in depth several times and you don't want to learn electronics don't expect getting to a national level let alone international racing. It's too competitive. He does hate factory riders for being primadonnas(sp?) but that is another matter.
 

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It's not even actually KTM and other manufacturers that develop MTC from the ground up. It's the likes of Bosch and Magneti Marelli and others that make the products. Sure, manufacturers have some input, but the entire electronics suite is sourced from Bosch or Magneti Marelli or whoever. Which would explain the secrecy to begin with. There aren't too many players that make MTC systems. So it's a cut throat world. If you want someone to yell at, yell at Bosch. Because Bosch makes MTC for KTM.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
I don't get it. I was stating that TC has not yet become standardized and you disagree....? There's no point here. Standardization of TC has not yet occurred and you are not happy. These are two separate things, but considering the state of the world, the whole "KTM doesn't want us to know what they're really doing!" comes off as trash, clickbait thinking. Cut it out. That said, I agree with you but not the "How dare they!" part.
It's not click bait, I should have stopped when I got the internet message that no one knows what KTM's specs are for MTC. That's all I was asking. Instead what I got was people telling me why I didn't need to know. I would like to know, on my 2019 SDGT, how far does MTC allow the front wheel to lift before throttle control? How hard does the MTC shut down the throttle when it does reach the limit? Both of these are different from my 2017.

I feel like the little kid whose dad tells him, don't worry your pretty little head about such things.

okay, thanks for the message. I'm out!
 

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Out of curiosity, even if someone here actually knew the parameters set by Bosch & Magneti Marelli and posted them here, what would you do with them regardless? I personally have the Track Pak on my 19’ with the wheelie control ’off’ instead of ’on’ because KTM does not give us the adjustability with WC like a newer R1, RSV4, etc. The WC cuts fairly aggressively when on and I’d prefer to manage my power wheelies with my right hand instead. KTM did a good job with their electronic supplier in the TC/IMU department as when I lower the Slip on a fast road, I can modulate a power slide predictably...surface conditions aside.
 

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It's not click bait, I should have stopped when I got the internet message that no one knows what KTM's specs are for MTC. That's all I was asking. Instead what I got was people telling me why I didn't need to know. I would like to know, on my 2019 SDGT, how far does MTC allow the front wheel to lift before throttle control? How hard does the MTC shut down the throttle when it does reach the limit? Both of these are different from my 2017.

I feel like the little kid whose dad tells him, don't worry your pretty little head about such things.

okay, thanks for the message. I'm out!
Good! It's always wonderful when self entitlement leaves the room. Go fight your simplistic, invisible enemies somewhere else because there's no one actually opposed to knowing more on the topic. Quantifying something as complex as this is just complex. I had a brilliant engineer tell me once that the thing that bugged him the most about non-engineers is that they seemed to simplify answers until the explanation worked but it was completely wrong. He gave an example that everyone believes you can use a straw to suck soda out of a can when in fact the air pressure inside is lowered through a vacuum until fluid travelling upwards is the path of least resistance. Try explaining that to a young lady at a party and see where you get. Sucking through a straw is widely accepted and unquestioned, and wrong. There could easily be global reasons for why no one has quantified this data. KTM even spent a considerable sum of money to produce videos explaining and demonstrating their electronic safety systems but did not give any figures. These are big ideas. Why does my bike do a, b, and c are small idea. They don't always jive together if you go from big to small.
 

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Good! It's always wonderful when self entitlement leaves the room. Go fight your simplistic, invisible enemies somewhere else because there's no one actually opposed to knowing more on the topic. Quantifying something as complex as this is just complex. I had a brilliant engineer tell me once that the thing that bugged him the most about non-engineers is that they seemed to simplify answers until the explanation worked but it was completely wrong. He gave an example that everyone believes you can use a straw to suck soda out of a can when in fact the air pressure inside is lowered through a vacuum until fluid travelling upwards is the path of least resistance. Try explaining that to a young lady at a party and see where you get. Sucking through a straw is widely accepted and unquestioned, and wrong. There could easily be global reasons for why no one has quantified this data. KTM even spent a considerable sum of money to produce videos explaining and demonstrating their electronic safety systems but did not give any figures. These are big ideas. Why does my bike do a, b, and c are small idea. They don't always jive together if you go from big to small.
Merriam Webster

Definition of suck


transitive verb
1a : to draw (something, such as liquid) into the mouth through a suction force produced by movements of the lips and tongue

which leads us to suction

suction
noun
Definition of suction

1 : the act or process of sucking

2a : the act or process of exerting a force upon a solid, liquid, or gaseous body by reason of reduced air pressure over part of its surface

People may not understand the mechanics of SUCK but SUCK it is.

:LOL: engineers.... pfft.
 

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I'm not sure what people are fishing for re; specs of the MTC. There is no spec as I understand it. When the speed of the front wheel exceeds the speed of the back wheel, the ecu feeds in some throttle to keep the rear turning and prevents it from breaking traction, as every motorcycle I've ever owned before does when downshifting hard going into a tight turn. And it cuts throttle when the speed of the rear exceeds the speed of the front like when the wheel comes up or the rear spins. All of the electronic safety features cannot make up for huge mistakes, only small bobbles that could loom large if uncorrected.. Anyone who's ever ridden in abject anger knows you can brake harder on a dry surface than ABS allows. This is the reasoning for being able to turn the aids on and off, or to set them at some degree in between as it suits a purpose. It takes practice and experimentation to know how those degrees differ and no "spec" from a book is going to tell you anything you really need to know. Get out and ride the damn thing and see what it does under your own inputs at your own pace. I've had mine for nearly 3 years and I'm still learning what it can do. It can't save you from yourself.
 

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Merriam Webster

Definition of suck


transitive verb
1a : to draw (something, such as liquid) into the mouth through a suction force produced by movements of the lips and tongue

which leads us to suction

suction
noun
Definition of suction

1 : the act or process of sucking

2a : the act or process of exerting a force upon a solid, liquid, or gaseous body by reason of reduced air pressure over part of its surface

People may not understand the mechanics of SUCK but SUCK it is.

:LOL: engineers.... pfft.
Yeah I get it but that's the point. The definitions that are obvious and simple to regular people don't create a strong enough design. Engineers can go well beyond what I can produce from thinking. I can't design and power a space shuttle with my straw sucking thinking. It's a different system of thinking that is not really intuitive for most of us but it is proven and responsible for a significant portion of our modern life from lawn mowers to even high powered motorcycles. People hate uncertainty, they want an answer even if it's wrong as long as it makes them feel secure.
 

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Yeah I get it but that's the point. The definitions that are obvious and simple to regular people don't create a strong enough design. Engineers can go well beyond what I can produce from thinking. I can't design and power a space shuttle with my straw sucking thinking. It's a different system of thinking that is not really intuitive for most of us but it is proven and responsible for a significant portion of our modern life from lawn mowers to even high powered motorcycles. People hate uncertainty, they want an answer even if it's wrong as long as it makes them feel secure.
I agree, you would probably need an engineering/maths degree to understand exactly how the electronics control and intervene. I can also understand why KTM might not want to give too much detail.
 

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I agree, you would probably need an engineering/maths degree to understand exactly how the electronics control and intervene. I can also understand why KTM might not want to give too much detail.
It's because there's no further detail to give. I think this is being overcomplicated. I explained how the MTC works both ways. There is no "spec". It intervenes when the wheel sensors tell it something isn't copacetic, just like ABS.

With a machine such as a Motogp bike, the differing degrees of intervention can be programmed to suit a rider's taste and comfort and set-up for a particular track. No wheelie control has a display that says what angle of wheelie can be allowed for a certain setting. The racers set the controls according to what they feel like and what the machine does in a particular situation, but situations change constantly. I still don't know what sort of assurances a rider could expect in the realm of "specs" When things get going, there's no time to be looking at a screen to be told what's going on, so it's a matter of personal taste (and fear) where you set the electronic safety aids. There are no "specs" to be withheld or revealed. Whatever it is you'd like to know, you'll only find out by trying it and not in a book.

MTC and ABS on street machines are both aimed at keeping both wheels rotating at the same rate, whether braking, accelerating or just riding along. The degree of intervention is whatever it takes to accomplish that. NO SPEC.
 

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Things like screw and fastener sizes has been standardized. You can find SAE, metric, Whitworth, JIS, and others. Things like socket wrenches in the US can be found most commonly in 1/4, 3/8, and 1/2. Things like TC have not yet reached a point where they have been standardized across the board for all manufacturers. In GP racing, different teams and manufacturers independently work on electronic aids without sharing because it is a competitive environment. Perhaps in time but with motos seemingly going the way of the dodo we may never reach any consensus.
I'd like to know if there are any other manufacturers who use the same Torx-in, hex-out fasteners that KTM does. I don't know about you, but my 50-yer-old tool collection had to be updated to cope. I had all the "standard" tools. Talking about "standardizing" electronic aids is like talking about "standardizing" powerbands or torque curves. Are simple household light switches "standardized"? To some extent, but some have dimmers, some can be wired as 3-way or even 4-way switches, some have different methods of actuation, such as Decora switches. If "standardization" means all are exactly alike, that'll never happen unless politicians pass a law that states the allowable parameters and then manufacturers comply, as they did when the US passed a law stating both hand and foot brakes had to be on the same side of the machine. I'd wager most folks thought that was about what side the shifter was on.
 

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It's not click bait, I should have stopped when I got the internet message that no one knows what KTM's specs are for MTC.
Actually , its not that hard to think that all the sensors and data are working in a virtual memory system.

There hints about, spark mod, throttle mod,, then theres fuel mod but its the slower way, but fuel mod might smooth out the results. <spark is instant, fuel is smoother , throttle probably lies in the middle of the 2
Ive been busy working alot atm , but ive been playing with a TC and its about being able to adjust it
TC doesnt need throttle when you have spark and fuel.

The hint is that so many cable throttle bikes can receive an aftermarket TC

Anti wheelie might be the more correct wording rather than wheelie control if you dont have control(like traction control
Finky , you should summarize your question again as i think it s good topic, do you want to try and do a hack mod or?
 

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I'd like to know if there are any other manufacturers who use the same Torx
torx is everywhere over here
Every building screw etc etc
+ is hard to find , maybe plaster screws
Hex keys theres a lot but limited hex bolts

I must have 40 sets of torx
 

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torx is everywhere over here
Every building screw etc etc
+ is hard to find , maybe plaster screws
Hex keys theres a lot but limited hex bolts

I must have 40 sets of torx
Replaced the starter on my son’s ‘08 BMW 328i last week.
Had to pick a couple of sets (shallow and deep) of E-torx (external) sockets.
Needed them for the starter bolts and the strut braces.

 

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Replaced the starter on my son’s ‘08 BMW 328i last week.
Had to pick a couple of sets (shallow and deep) of E-torx (external) sockets.
Needed them for the starter bolts and the strut braces.

Not only does BMW use the E-Torx but to make matters worse they use sizes that
are not included in most common sets:confused:
 

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It's not click bait, I should have stopped when I got the internet message that no one knows what KTM's specs are for MTC. That's all I was asking. Instead what I got was people telling me why I didn't need to know. I would like to know, on my 2019 SDGT, how far does MTC allow the front wheel to lift before throttle control? How hard does the MTC shut down the throttle when it does reach the limit? Both of these are different from my 2017.

I feel like the little kid whose dad tells him, don't worry your pretty little head about such things.

okay, thanks for the message. I'm out!
There is a YouTube video that explains how to snap the throttle to get the bike to wheelie. I have a 2019 SDGT with approx. 10,500 miles on it, and I have found that with the MTC engaged in Sport mode, if I snap the throttle it will raise the front wheel about a foot off the ground before it settles back down. The video explains how the engineers have purposely programed the electronic throttle to respond differently to an aggressive roll-on versus snapping the throttle.
 
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