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Your main point about the Panigale V2, SF V2 and Multistrada V2 being "lower tier" models versus the V4 models is true. Nonetheless, I feel the need to be detailed.For the record, Ducati has more than those two series of engines. They actually have 4 distinct series of engines.
  1. V4 (includes Panigale, SF and Gran Turismo version in the Multistrada)
  2. Superquaddro V2 with gear driven cam, liquid cooled 4 valve (the "959" in the Pani V2 and SF V2)
  3. Testastretta V2 liquid cooled with belt driven cam 4-valve (currently in the 1260 DVT form in the Diavel and "950" form in the Multistrada V2, Monster and Hypermotard)
  4. Desmodue (two valve air-cooled, belt driven cam engines in 800 and 1100 versions for the Scrambler line)
Well, I have to nuance my assessment a bit: by lesser bikes, I strictly mean "in regard to the top of the range V4 models". Other than that, the Panigale & Streetfighter V2 are in no way inferior models on the market as a whole. Their downfall is their price, really - especially with the two-cylinder Streetfighter that plays into SDR and Tuono V4 territory.

You are right about the Ducati engines - completely forgot about the old Desmodue which still valiantly survives lives in the Scrambler. Other than that, the Superquadro and Testastretta are the "two flavours" of the V2 I was referring to :)

Interesting, but hardly a surprise :)

KTM already makes a twin sportbike, the RC 8C. A street-legal version of that will most probably come soon enough. The big V-twin superbike train has already left the station, it's V4 from now on.
 

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The prelude to tomorrow's announcement spoke about a bike that "blurred categories" or something. I am not sure how an RC8 blurs any categories, but who knows. I will be disappointed if the RC8 is the only other new model.
Theres talk of a 490 twin also, not sure if it's a direct 390 duke/RC390 replacement or something different
 

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Equally disappointed. The SDGT isn't a big seller for KTM, but they don't make things easier for themselves with such mild updates. It basically gets the SDR wheels and electronic suspension and the SAS dashboard. That's all. While I get not updating the frame (the new SDR frame is basically a sports bike frame), they didn't even bother changing that hideous stock exhaust.
 

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Here's the English press release: EXPAND YOUR HUNTING GROUND ON THE 2022 KTM 1290 SUPER DUKE GT

It sounds like they took the Gen 2 and:
  1. added lighter wheels (nice plus)
  2. electronic semi-active suspension (nice option)
  3. added a larger TFT (nice, but not a deal maker)
  4. added optional navigation (using Sygic, which has had mixed, but mostly negative reviews on the Multistrada V4)

These are nice small upgrades, but it's not a new generation. After seeing spyshots last year of a new SD GT with the 2020+ SD R frame, this is a bit of a let down. The reviews of the new frame/chassis on the 2020+ SD R made it sound like a significant upgrade over the previous gen frame, so not getting that frame on the GT is disappointing. I have not ridden the 2020+ R, but have seen one in the flesh and sat on it. The subframe attachment is quite a bit different between the two, but the R can obviously carry a passenger, so I am not sure why with minor modifications it couldn't also support the weight of panniers. I can't think of any other reason that they would use the "old" frame.

Nonetheless, starting with the assumption that the previous SD GT is a good bike, this will remain on my shopping list and I'll give it a go when they arrive at a dealer near me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #69 ·
The Super Duke GT has always had the electronic semi active suspension...but they did not mention the 20mm of sag adjustment or all of the other features on the gen 2 WP that they put on the Super Duke R Evo. I might look at this as an opportunity to get a new bike and be able to carry over 5 year old mods from my first one. Trying to find the positives.
 

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After seeing spyshots last year of a new SD GT with the 2020+ SD R frame, this is a bit of a let down. The reviews of the new frame/chassis on the 2020+ SD R made it sound like a significant upgrade over the previous gen frame, so not getting that frame on the GT is disappointing. I have not ridden the 2020+ R, but have seen one in the flesh and sat on it. The subframe attachment is quite a bit different between the two, but the R can obviously carry a passenger, so I am not sure why with minor modifications it couldn't also support the weight of panniers. I can't think of any other reason that they would use the "old" frame.
My guess is that the new SDR frame isn't ideal (i.e. too rigid) for the type of riding the SDGT will be doing. The fact that they had a mule of the GT with this frame confirms that they did try it but probably considered the "old" frame as a better option in this case. The frame geometry might also be in play here, as the SDR 3.0 has more of an aggressive stance than the old Super Duke - which has a more upright position. I see this as being more comfortable for touring.
 

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It is cool to see the two bikes depart a little bit from each other, a nod to the purpose of each bike. If I was touring though, I'd go for a different platform though - more adventure bike with a road tire.
 

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My guess is that the new SDR frame isn't ideal (i.e. too rigid) for the type of riding the SDGT will be doing. The fact that they had a mule of the GT with this frame confirms that they did try it but probably considered the "old" frame as a better option in this case. The frame geometry might also be in play here, as the SDR 3.0 has more of an aggressive stance than the old Super Duke - which has a more upright position. I see this as being more comfortable for touring.
Admittedly I'm only going on what I have read plus specs, and I haven't seen every review, but the reviews I have read seem to suggest a different scenario. The reviews generally think the new R chassis is much more manageable and that the previous version could be a bit of handful. Looking at specs for the SD R vs the old chassis SD GT, the R actually has a longer wheelbase and more rake. The values are very close, but if anything the R's specs suggest more stable steering and steady handling, not less. As for rigidity, I have not seen one review complain about the stiffness or compliance of the R or that it is too sport/track focused or too quick handling. I should note I looked at the specs for the 2019 SD GT because that is what I could find reliably. I suppose it is possible the 2022 GT frame looks like the older frame but has different specs. Of course if they wanted to change the rake trail, they could have just as easily done that on the new frame. Everything I have read about the SD R says that the new frame is an unqualified improvement of the one thing that hold the older bikes back.

Again, my personal experience is limited to sitting, but I felt no real difference in ergonomic comfort level between the 2020 SD R and a 2020 SD GT. The positions are a little different, but I might have even found the leg bend more comfortable on the R. The bar was a little higher on the GT, but bars can be swapped easily and cheaply.

My best guess remains that the new frame design does not offer the proper rear subframe support to be able to handle the load capacity that is expected on a sport-tourer. I just don't buy the idea that somehow the new R frame is so much more sporting and hard edged that it is therefore unsuitable for sport-touring.
 

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The Super Duke GT has always had the electronic semi active suspension...but they did not mention the 20mm of sag adjustment or all of the other features on the gen 2 WP that they put on the Super Duke R Evo. I might look at this as an opportunity to get a new bike and be able to carry over 5 year old mods from my first one. Trying to find the positives.
Thanks for clarifying, I didn't realize the older gen suspension was semi-active.
 

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My best guess remains that the new frame design does not offer the proper rear subframe support to be able to handle the load capacity that is expected on a sport-tourer. I just don't buy the idea that somehow the new R frame is so much more sporting and hard edged that it is therefore unsuitable for sport-touring.
You might be right. What I can say is that you are more forward-leaned on the present SDR than you are on the older model (that shares its frame with the GT) and I can see this being a slight problem on longer trips. The previous model was comfier for me in that regard. Admittedly, the point in the new position on the R is to give more front-end feel and make the bike wheelie less. But the chassis is only half the story.

Looking at the high-res pictures of the '22 GT, I can see that they also kept the old rear suspension assembly, without the linkage present on the R 3.0. Makes sense, since that chassis was designed with that suspension setup in mind. Now comparing with the spy shots you were referring to and that popped up last year, one can clearly see the rear suspension linkage, the R's wheels and single-sided swingarm as well as a custom trellis rear section, different from the R's that would've most probably addressed the possible issues with the rear load capacity.



So yes, they basically tried to make a GT out of the SDR 3.0 and something went awry. This is why they reverted to using the old setup and why it probably took them this long to come with a "new" model which is essentially 90% the same as the outgoing one.
 

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You might be right. What I can say is that you are more forward-leaned on the present SDR than you are on the older model (that shares its frame with the GT) and I can see this being a slight problem on longer trips. The previous model was comfier for me in that regard. Admittedly, the point in the new position on the R is to give more front-end feel and make the bike wheelie less. But the chassis is only half the story.

Looking at the high-res pictures of the '22 GT, I can see that they also kept the old rear suspension assembly, without the linkage present on the R 3.0. Makes sense, since that chassis was designed with that suspension setup in mind. Now comparing with the spy shots you were referring to and that popped up last year, one can clearly see the rear suspension linkage, the R's wheels and single-sided swingarm as well as a custom trellis rear section, different from the R's that would've most probably addressed the possible issues with the rear load capacity.

View attachment 105107

So yes, they basically tried to make a GT out of the SDR 3.0 and something went awry. This is why they reverted to using the old setup and why it probably took them this long to come with a "new" model which is essentially 90% the same as the outgoing one.
You're right on KTM changing direction, We'll probably never know why they made the change, but after giving the pic you posted a close look (that's much clearer than what I had seen, thanks for posting), I wonder if cost was the issue. The subframe above does look more complicated. It also looks cool.
 

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That or they felt it needs another year of development to establish another great GT. The parts may not individually be bad, but sometimes it doesn't add up to a whole new quality motorcycle. This is what experimentation is for. I'm sure the next gen GT will be just as great as the previous ones were.
 

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I agree. But with that comes the risk of becoming irrelevant. I think the SDGT is a great (although ugly) and unique bike in the sport touring niche. I can't think of any other model that offers what it has. But the truth of the matter is that it's not a known model and KTM doesn't seem too keen on throwing much marketing under it - hence the low sales. I think more people would buy one if they'd fix its flaws. And keeping the model only slightly updated through the years doesn't help much.
 

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Here's the English press release: EXPAND YOUR HUNTING GROUND ON THE 2022 KTM 1290 SUPER DUKE GT

It sounds like they took the Gen 2 and:
  1. added lighter wheels (nice plus)
  2. electronic semi-active suspension (nice option)
  3. added a larger TFT (nice, but not a deal maker)
  4. added optional navigation (using Sygic, which has had mixed, but mostly negative reviews on the Multistrada V4)

These are nice small upgrades, but it's not a new generation. After seeing spyshots last year of a new SD GT with the 2020+ SD R frame, this is a bit of a let down. The reviews of the new frame/chassis on the 2020+ SD R made it sound like a significant upgrade over the previous gen frame, so not getting that frame on the GT is disappointing. I have not ridden the 2020+ R, but have seen one in the flesh and sat on it. The subframe attachment is quite a bit different between the two, but the R can obviously carry a passenger, so I am not sure why with minor modifications it couldn't also support the weight of panniers. I can't think of any other reason that they would use the "old" frame.

Nonetheless, starting with the assumption that the previous SD GT is a good bike, this will remain on my shopping list and I'll give it a go when they arrive at a dealer near me.
My 2020 GT already has semi-active suspension. All they have done is add an anti-dive valve to the forks. 2020 has 6.5" TFT - this gets a slightly larger one at 7", common wheels with the R line just save them money (and you swap them for the 2020 wheels for about $900), and a software update for the MYRIDE app. Sorry but not a lot to get excited over. Worst of all, they are going to offer the GT to the North America market - again..
 
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