[melttin]

Tick Tick

This thread is about the motor making noise. My bike makes a noise we call a "tick" which is the sound of two pieces of metal which sound like they're loose emanating from the head of the motor.

Does your Duke make any noise like that?

Onomatopoeic!

web: thefreedictionary.com/onomatopoeic


I just couldn't resist!...so rare I get a chance to use the word in context!

Thanks to Tye (and others) for putting this out there.
2013 Duke;
..I will probably be peeking under my valve cover tomorrow for the first time. I just put 1000th mile on mine in the first week (9 days actually).

Observations so far:

• It has had a major tick since day one.
• It is most noticeable from the 1 O'clock position of the engine (looking down).or: looking straight into the exhaust port.
• It gets more noticeable as the oil thins with heat.
• It matches the speed of the cam.
• It does not go away when you rev it from idle, it gets louder at off idle and then quiets to normal through the 1st 1000 rpm (above normal idle).
• I can't hear it much at higher revs (no load or under load)

To me, when cold, it sounds like good, old, everyday valve lash noise. Not uncommon and most always fixable. BUT... After a Sunday morning canyon, it sounds like something is going to break...sooner or later. It goes beyond trivial.
If it was an engine I had (re)built, I'd be rippin' it apart wonderin' what the heck I did wrong!
I can't imagine that if I ignore it, the way I ride it...it's gonna last long.
And I don't have the wealth to fix engineering problems on my brand new ten thousand dollar thumper.
I couldn't find any mfg date on mine...just 2013 emission stickers.

 

[SneakyOwl]

Well, if you break it before having opened it yourself, the warranty would definetly cover it (and they might fix it )

Your description of the ticking noise is accurate to my bike. The most commong thing (as stated many times and also disproved) I think would be the cam chain tensioner. Seen plenty of Youtube videos on where the ticking is reduced to an absolute minimum by using a manual chain tensioner instead of the hydralic chain tensioner that sits in the Dukes.

Having tried to search for them now I found just other bikes.. bleh

Anywho; My dealer just said it was the decompression of the engine causing the noise.

 

[tye1138]

I've discussed this issue with many dealers, nobody has a resolution. I also don't trust a grease monkey who graduated from Wyotech who is about to re-build my Duke's head. Unfortunately in the US, there really aren't any KTM street bike experts, as there haven't been very many bikes sold here over the years.

Other members of this forum have had their rocker arms replaced because the dealer thought the noise was coming from the super-robust cam rollers, but that wasn't the case, at least one of those guys has reported back saying the noise slowly came back.

I replaced the rockers AND the cam bearings, the noise disappeared for about 2 weeks and it slowly came back. Now its at full-tilt, just the way it was from day one.

My current hypothesis is that there is binding going on somewhere in the valve actuation system. It could be caused from too-tight clearances and/or the cam chain tension. But after replacing parts, if they fail so quickly for MANY people not just myself, it begs the question, what's making them fail? The answer lies somewhere in the head. My guess is, when I re-open the motor to install yet another new cam bearing, I will notice the clearances will be tight. I'm preying thats the issue because too-tight clearances could absolutely lead to this issue.

I will be back with more updates, but for the time being, I await parts!

 

[saintvice]

ok parts should be arriving tomorrow as planned... we have to 2012 dukes with the same problem here.... i ordered two sets of rocker arms and needle sleeves. we are going to replace both parts for both bikes... and one bike will use 10w60 and the other 10w40...... and see which lasts longer..... i will be sticking with 10w40..... both bikes are identical same exhaust setup same air system....so it would be the best test i believe would have been an added advantage if one had a manual cam tensioner but both are stock hydrolic....

 

[tye1138]

Do a favor for me... try to compress the cam chain tensioner a bit. Just take a screw driver and slightly push on the little ball at the back and slowly work the oil out of it. This way when the bike starts up for the first time after the work, it won't put all that tension on the cam chain.

Also, triple check the clearances. I still think they have something to do with this mystery.

I have another bearing on the way, should be here soon. Once I have it, I'm going to pop it back open again, check the clearances and swap both the little and big bearing.

Doing the 10W60 oil today.

 

[saintvice]

Do a favor for me... try to compress the cam chain tensioner a bit. Just take a screw driver and slightly push on the little ball at the back and slowly work the oil out of it. This way when the bike starts up for the first time after the work, it won't put all that tension on the cam chain.

Also, triple check the clearances. I still think they have something to do with this mystery.

I have another bearing on the way, should be here soon. Once I have it, I'm going to pop it back open again, check the clearances and swap both the little and big bearing.

Doing the 10W60 oil today.

just to confirm i have the hydrolic tensioner...and also u want me to check the clearance on which part?

 

[tye1138]

Yea, the hydraulic tensioner has a little ball bearing in the back of it. Just push on it with a screw driver or something and release the pressure. Just so that when you re-assemble, it doesn't put too much stress on the new bearing. I do think thats what happened with my bearing, I have a manual adjuster and put too much stress on it from the get go.

Valve clearances... at TDC check the clearances.

 

[saintvice]

early christmas

Parts finally arrive

Tomorrow is d day

 

[saintvice]

bike is alive

did the part changes on sat as planned... having a busy monday so will post pics and comments tomorrow.

 

[Fixinta7]

Do a favor for me... try to compress the cam chain tensioner a bit. Just take a screw driver and slightly push on the little ball at the back and slowly work the oil out of it. This way when the bike starts up for the first time after the work, it won't put all that tension on the cam chain.

Also, triple check the clearances. I still think they have something to do with this mystery.

I have another bearing on the way, should be here soon. Once I have it, I'm going to pop it back open again, check the clearances and swap both the little and big bearing.

Doing the 10W60 oil today.

Any update?

I've the 2013, bought in June of last summer, Vegas heat, ticking was prevalent after first week of riding, now have 4500 miles on it, more noticeable. The "tick" sounds exactly like my 07 DRZ 400SM tick..

 

[tye1138]

Unfortunately I gave up trying to make it work. My clearances were spot on, I replaced the rockers and bearings. I tried different weight oil's as well. Nothing made the tick go away for longer then a few miles. Its funny, after each change, the tick was gone for a week or so. Then it slowly came back again.

I got frustrated and actually wound up selling the bike last week. As much as I loved the bike, truly think its the best over-all street bike you can buy. I want something for longer distance riding and the Duke just isn't it unfortunately.

So my life with the Duke has ended... for now.

 

[Fixinta7]

Thanks for all the research that you put into it, was helpful all the way through. Good luk on your new bike search!

 

[Nii Ronaldo]

Hmmm! I saw this coming. Sorry to say but the duke 4 are just not durable.

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[KAT01]

Guys, I've had a timing chain tensioner collapse before, the ratchet mechanism just schit itself, so new one installed and seemed all sorted.

I AM A "QUALIFIED COUCH MECHANIC", so don't shoot me if there's a better way to do this.

The KATO1 way to install a KTM tensioner is:-

1. Compress all the old oil out of the tensioner, most mechs use brake cleaner and spurt some in to help, ensure it is at full extension.
2. The correct operation of the tensioner should be to spring out and bind on the ratchet on the way back in.
3. Use a 20 cent piece (yep, or a quarter) place it on a bench, put the tip right next to it and push down hard until the outside sleeve hits the top, it should lock into place, otherwise you need a fatter coin.
4. Put it back into the bike.
5. Put only the retainer nut (the one with a hole in it) back in and lock it up.
6. Use an 8mm drill bit, push it into the hole on the end, the wrong way around, smooth end sitting on the tensioner.
7. Put a rag on your frame and lever a screwdriver off the sharp end of the drill bit, you will feel the tensioner release.
8. Back off the main retaining nut slowly with a ring spanner, not a ratchet, as you want to hear the click on the tensioner ratchet system 2 times.
9. Lock it up, put the small plug bolt in.
10. Have a beer, admire your work.

If you still have a tick from the timing chain, check the O ring is still inside the tensioner tube, it's just past the end of the thread in the hole and should offer some resistance then pop past it when you push the tensioner back in then , I've fixed one before when my buddy did a rebuild and lost it somehow on his duke 3.

 

[KAT01]

Has anyone thought about decompression springs and lever on the cam rattling around?

rocker arm rollers rattling?

I haven't found it yet, but I will eventually.

http://www.ktmonlineparts.com.au/find/fiche/18827

 

[Alexb83]

I've discussed this issue with many dealers, nobody has a resolution. I also don't trust a grease monkey who graduated from Wyotech who is about to re-build my Duke's head. Unfortunately in the US, there really aren't any KTM street bike experts, as there haven't been very many bikes sold here over the years.

Other members of this forum have had their rocker arms replaced because the dealer thought the noise was coming from the super-robust cam rollers, but that wasn't the case, at least one of those guys has reported back saying the noise slowly came back.

I replaced the rockers AND the cam bearings, the noise disappeared for about 2 weeks and it slowly came back. Now its at full-tilt, just the way it was from day one.

My current hypothesis is that there is binding going on somewhere in the valve actuation system. It could be caused from too-tight clearances and/or the cam chain tension. But after replacing parts, if they fail so quickly for MANY people not just myself, it begs the question, what's making them fail? The answer lies somewhere in the head. My guess is, when I re-open the motor to install yet another new cam bearing, I will notice the clearances will be tight. I'm preying thats the issue because too-tight clearances could absolutely lead to this issue.

I will be back with more updates, but for the time being, I await parts!

I had my rocker arms and rollers replaced about 3000 miles ago. The clattering was unbearable, and ended with the engine locked at dead centre and me pushing it back to the dealers.

When removed, one of the rockers had a shot bearing, and the rollers were heavily scored.

The noise is gone, and it hasn't come back since.

 

[tye1138]

The noise is gone, and it hasn't come back since.

It will eventually come back again... just give it time. I didn't have a single measurable issue with my top end before taking it apart and replacing the rocker arms and bearings.

The tick went away for at least a few hundred miles and then slowly but surely came back again. But I also rev my motor to the redline constantly, so that abuse does for sure bring more noise with it.

I'm also using an aftermarket, manual cam chain tensioner, so in my case, it has nothing to do with that.

My noise was the big cam bearing and I'm sure if I kept on replacing it, I'd eventually figure out why it was making the noise. But I got tired of dealing with it. The LC4 motor is a hunk of junk in my opinion and it pisses me off KTM haven't bothered making it work right because clearly, it doesn't work right.

 

[hyperpete]

Hmmm! I saw this coming. Sorry to say but the duke 4 are just not durable.

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Is that you're opinion after reading of just a few bikes with faults? Or do you have more substantial information to back this claim?
How many LC4 do you think there are of them there would be quite a few duke 4 around having quite a fun time.
I've owned more than 50 bikes and enjoyed many more when working for the various bike companies over time,I would say, in my reasonably varied riding experience I've not found one of those bikes to not have had some problem or more, the Duke is no different. I think half the problems are the rider imagination more than the bike's actual fault..
Ride and enjoy, life's too short

 

[Guil]

I think half the problems are the rider imagination more than the bike's actual fault..
Ride and enjoy, life's too short

+1 what he said :clap:

 

[redman]

Thanks Pete you are spot on