Well, 19 hours and 73 looks and no replies. Looks like I'm going to be the guinea pig. LOL I'll update this thread once I finally get the tuner and install it.

 

I looked but dont have anything good to say.
Its only an editor, its not really a tuner, someone can tune your bike using the editor, but not you?
Im not a fan of this loop bullshit of words from these companies .

Best way to pick a tuner is to look around your country for someone who can tune. Can you tune with bren if my bike was in your shop Y/N

If its only a flash service , then its still and editor with the company providing flash.

A product regardless of where its looped in, if you can tune it yourself , its a tuner, if it has an autotune feature, its a tuner.
IF the shop guy can tune with it , its a tuner

I must admit i checked out bren a year ago for a discussion i was having with a guy who had a pcV on his 1290 and was thinking of changing to bren,and i studies it out the pcV combo makes much better sense.
Exspecially for local conditions and changing conditions.

 

Well, I have not used it but your thread made me go look them up. Wow! $900 pay-to-play...sheesh. The OFT in contrast is $700. Is there something the BrenTune will do that the OFT will not? Is one superior to the other?

All im saying is - if all things equal....save yourself $200 IF they do not go on BF sale.

Im currently running all the Dynojet goodness that is offered but of course the DJ set up is piggyback and doesnt do things like remove the ECU restrictions put in place by lawyers, or advance the timing (something this bike greatly benefits from).

Ive thought about flashing my ECU EVEN with leaving the DJ and Autotune in place since A) im lazy to remove it and B) still allows custom autotuned mapping on top of whatever the flash will baseline.

In summary - unrestricted ECU plus very fine-tuned variable mapping. (At least by my simpleton logic)

 

Yes $900 is steep. It was cheaper when you sent your ecm in to them and they flashed it there, but now you get the hand held unit and two maps so there's no down time. I'm hoping it makes the BF list, they have the BMW s1000rr on sale right now and it looks like it's $300 off. Keeping my fingers crossed.

 

If your going a hand held editor , i would suggest staying continental rather than import.

 

Ive just replied to another post, during that I checked the brentuning site. It appears they have updated the device they use for tuning. When I bought my tablet it looked exactly like the oft.

I hope you didnt order it yet. I have the oft tablet now but I originally bought the brentuning tuner. No bad on them, they were super helpful and gave me a full refund (minus shipping) in the end, but the tune just didnt work with my bike/setup. With the brentuning tune the bike had a super rough (jumping around the revs and staying fairly low) idle and would occasionally just randomly stall at idle, never at speed. With brentuning I got a message back generally with 24 hours if it was a weekday. If I lived closer to them I probably would still have the tuner and be happy, they had offered to slap the bike on their dyno (dont know if they wanted to charge me or do it for free) but as I live in California that wasnt really an option.

With oft, the bike still runs a little rough at idle but feels much better under 4k then with brentunings tune and I dont notice any difference between the two tunes above that. They arnt as quick at getting back you you as brentuning is, ive had to wait up to 4 days for them to get back to me, but they have also responded to me on weekends. The main thing of course is that the bike doesnt just randomly stall. They also have offered to put my bike on their dyno, but they do want to charge me to do so. At the moment im happy with it but I do plan on putting it on the dyno eventually since they are only about 3 hours away from me.

The oft tablet also has a lot more functionality then the brentuning tablet, for $200 less. The main two being live diagnostic information and the ability to record it (this includes things such as o2 sensor readings, and throttle position), and the ability to upload your own tunes, not just the ones they send you. The oft tunes are un-encrypted, so in essence if you wanted to you could make your own tune or take it to any tuner that is willing to work with the oft tablet, you arnt stuck with just openflash.

Also in the OF faq it says they dont ship to California, they do it just hasnt been updated.

TLDR: I recommend openflash much more than brentuning after experience with both

My setup (Dont let the CA fun police know)
18 SDR
Austin Racing - full belly exit gp3
Rottweiler Intake
Healtech plug for that pesky exhaust flap

 

I hope you didnt order it yet. I have the oft tablet now but I originally bought the brentuning tuner. No bad on them, they were super helpful and gave me a full refund (minus shipping) in the end, but the tune just didnt work with my bike/setup. With the brentuning tune the bike had a super rough (jumping around the revs and staying fairly low) idle and would occasionally just randomly stall at idle, never at speed. With brentuning I got a message back generally with 24 hours if it was a weekday. If I lived closer to them I probably would still have the tuner and be happy, they had offered to slap the bike on their dyno (dont know if they wanted to charge me or do it for free) but as I live in California that wasnt really an option.

With oft, the bike still runs a little rough at idle but feels much better under 4k then with brentunings tune and I dont notice any difference between the two tunes above that. They arnt as quick at getting back you you as brentuning is, ive had to wait up to 4 days for them to get back to me, but they have also responded to me on weekends. The main thing of course is that the bike doesnt just randomly stall. They also have offered to put my bike on their dyno, but they do want to charge me to do so. At the moment im happy with it but I do plan on putting it on the dyno eventually since they are only about 3 hours away from me.

The oft tablet also has a lot more functionality then the brentuning tablet, for $200 less. The main two being live diagnostic information and the ability to record it (this includes things such as o2 sensor readings, and throttle position), and the ability to upload your own tunes, not just the ones they send you. The oft tunes are un-encrypted, so in essence if you wanted to you could make your own tune or take it to any tuner that is willing to work with the oft tablet, you arnt stuck with just openflash.

Also in the OF faq it says they dont ship to California, they do it just hasnt been updated.

TLDR: I recommend openflash much more than brentuning after experience with both

My setup (Dont let the CA fun police know)
18 SDR
Austin Racing - full belly exit gp3
Rottweiler Intake
Healtech plug for that pesky exhaust flap

Bren offers the ability to datalog and send that info back to them to make adjustments to your tune but you have to buy an additional piece for $325 to be able to do it.

AEM WIDEBAND FAILSAFE GAUGE (PN: 30-4110)

AEM's Wideband Failsafe Gauge provides the ability to accurately tune AFR, while actively protecting your engine by constantly checking AFR.

brentuningmoto.com

I don't know if I can take this handheld device to anyone other than them to get an actual dyno tune or not. You are saying there are dyno tuners out there that tune with OFT?

 

Have to agree with cors187 & keatodylan. Installed the PCV & Dynotune after SAS removal, De-Cat, etc.

Just got back from the DynoJet Tuner for a Custom Tune. All I can say is WWWOOOOooooooWWWWwwwwww!! Wish I had done a Custom tune sooner. Downloaded pcm had the AFR at 12.7. Tuner moved it to 13.4 & made some other adjustments. My 2017 KTM SDGT is much more stable below 4K rpms, seems much smoother at take off but, still has the power/ throttle respone I love. Like the new KTM OEM ECU upgrade so, not worried about other programing of my ECU. Bike now feels like I am riding on glass & much easier to come to quick controlled stop. Now, if it was not the begging of the winter I would be in the mountains giving this new PCV map a good test run. Best,

Doc

 

Just got back from the DynoJet Tuner for a Custom Tune. All I can say is WWWOOOOooooooWWWWwwwwww!! Wish I had done a Custom tune sooner. Downloaded pcm had the AFR at 12.7. Tuner moved it to 13.4

did he show you how to do it yourself? i bet he did

 

Now my head hurts. Lol I'm coming from the Harley world where there is a plethora of very capable tuners available that can do very detailed tuning. I understand the advantage of a custom tune, I guess I was looking for something simple this time around. On my Harley, when I did an engine build I always got a custom dyno tune to get all I could out of it while also having good street manners. On this SDR I don't feel like I need "every" available horsepower out of it because my riding abilities don't match the bikes capabilities. I do however want it to breathe and sound better but also have safe afr and timing. If you get the PCV do you have to get an additional piece to be able to adjust the timing tables also and does it do away with the throttle restrictions that are in place? I'm going to call some shops in the Houston and Dallas area and see what all tuners they can work with. Thanks for all the replies.

 

Now my head hurts. Lol I'm coming from the Harley world where there is a plethora of very capable tuners available that can do very detailed tuning. I understand the advantage of a custom tune, I guess I was looking for something simple this time around. On my Harley, when I did an engine build I always got a custom dyno tune to get all I could out of it while also having good street manners. On this SDR I don't feel like I need "every" available horsepower out of it because my riding abilities don't match the bikes capabilities. I do however want it to breathe and sound better but also have safe afr and timing. If you get the PCV do you have to get an additional piece to be able to adjust the timing tables also and does it do away with the throttle restrictions that are in place?

With Power commander you do have to get the ignition module in order to adjust timing. Im not sure if the oft or brentuning tablet are capable of adjusting timing to be honest.

I believe (im not sure) with the PCV the throttle restrictions would still be in place, I know with the oft or brentuning device they can remove them. From my understand there is only throttle restrictions in first gear though (of course I could be wrong).

 

Thanks I'll read up on that. What I'm doing to my bike is fairly simple but not breaking the bank. I'm keeping the stock air box but replacing stock filter with a K&N. For the exhaust I'm keeping stock headpipe but installing a Remus decat mid pipe with an Austin Racing GPR1 muffler. Also have the Healtech servo eliminator along with the SAS/canister delete kit from Rottweiler. I know there would be a little more power to be had going with full exhaust and Rotty air box but this will suit my needs. I just want to make sure I get the AFR and timing set right for these changes.

 

It doesnt matter how a flash is installed , its still a flash , its still a block of info.
PcV is a flash unit aswell in its basic form, its just that if you want you can step up and auto tune, you can also communicate with their dynos. So a dyno shop garantees the bike upto 95-99% fuel mp perfect fot those conditions.Nothing can be tweaked any more in fuel map and they offer a set price because there is some form of link between bike and dyno

Step forward to a bike that has spark mod abilities, however the mod is done , its only the computing power that prevails.
So now the tuner is tweaking stock spark map, bike running hotter as more power comes, smart tuner uses fuel trims to reduce heat but keep the power. In this situation , the auto tune needs computing power to adjust its auto system.
its a cycle many dont even need.

Now it becomes evident , its computing power thats going to go forward, whether your paying a service or the box in your bike has it and is up-datable on your end.

The flash is a manual type according to a set line of mods exactly the same as the test bike.

So bren is probably superior in its use of all the editable items and using a dyno to prove the result.
I bet they are.

piggy pack is like a final drive
its coming out as something and getting to the wheel as something else.
computing power is growing now and its all about smart up datable tuners.

for example, the simpler 02 sensor can be computed now to extract info in fractions.
When the exhaust is closed and back vacuum is ready to suck the start of the exhaust out it measures, it measures 50 times in that exhaust stroke, it measures the last suck as the piston rolls over TDC and the exhaust is closed again, computing power gives such a simple device a set of data that can be interfaced with protocols to change any data.

Its really happening , the entry of smart spec boxes to modify every thing about everything.

And you think what the flash experts have are what?
Either 2 things . some guy with endless hours and feedback, or smart boxes full of computing, that takes out error fatster than a man reads a screen

Owww man , they day is almost gone where it was smart to disconnect your stock o2 sensors, the computing power can make them smarter than the dyno guy anyway.

So i feel that the hand held tuner is just that. Its a 50e tablet

 

Brentuning and Shiv at open flash both use dynos to verify results, both companies are offering essentially the same service on similar equipment, openflash also offers the option to send in your diagnostics retrieved using the tablet for them to fine tune the bike remotely.

The tablets from either company both allow much more freedom in what the tuners can do, they have much more access to the ecu, the PCV has no direct access to the ecu and as such the PCV can only customize the fueling, and you lose the auto adjust of the ecu. The tune tablets are NOT able to autotune though, they rely on a atleast fairly accurate tune (but tunes that are close to the mods you are using are included in the price of the tablets), where as the pcv with the autotune module can.

 

Ive also got a thing about this bukkshit that ECU editing is the best thing and piggyback is corrupted.
That reminds me of the fights in car audio forums about the corruption of a digital signal being corrupted as it goes through processing, then into amplifiers , then speakers.

 

Ive also got a thing about this bukkshit that ECU editing is the best thing and piggyback is corrupted.

Not corrupted. Just not as good. It’s almost as if you have shares in Dynojet or something. Some people prefer a hand-held TUNING DEVICE over the PCV. Get over it and stop complicating things (or making obscure analogies for that matter).
Every major car tuner will tell you an ecu tune is the preferred method over a piggyback. Every one.
The OFT allows each parameter of the engine to be changed to suit your needs specifically. The functionality of the handheld, with its ability to switch maps on the fly, clear codes and easily return the bike to stock should be reason enough that it blows the PCV out of the water. But it’s much more technical than that.

 

Lots of good discussion here. Thanks for all the replies. Emailed Bren to see if I could use their hand held to get a dyno tune done somewhere and they replied saying "We do not offer anything that is end user adjustable. Our handheld will only accept our files." Guess I'm scratching them from the list. Have emails out to OFT and Alientech.

 

How about everyone that wants to start a pissing match go start your own thread. I started this thread hoping for helpful info but it is turning into an arguing match. Please feel free to argue elsewhere.

 

https://rapidbike.us/products/2014-1290-super-duke-r

spec this up, the box does what is required with a combo of mods. so say good bye to flashes.Literally chop your bike to pieces, it will re tune.
Somehow smarter than the ecu and uses the stock equipment better than the current ecu.

It must be smart tech.
Everyone thats got this leaves the forums, to busy riding.

 

I’m no expert on any of this. I’ve put a PC on a previous bike and had it tuned, but never had a flash done.

But from my interest/research of the 2020 S1000rr over the past 6 months or so it does appear that the ECU and software are and will continue to become more and more complex as time passes.

The PC probably does what most are looking for on many current bikes.
However, I can’t help but think that as the programming becomes more complex and with the ever increasing government restrictions/standards, the manufacturers will continue to rely on the coding to meet these standards by neutering the bike electronically instead of mechanically.

Technically a PC could do what a flash does in very complex situations but it would require the investment/development into the unit to give it the capabilities.

The flash does add the risk of warranty issues. Most of the tuning handhelds do offer the option of flashing back to stock which appears isn’t detected at the dealer level in most situations. However, for certain expensive claims BMW (and likely most other manufacturers) can dig deeper and detect/see that the flash was done.

The new S1000rr is the extreme example in terms of both electronic restrictions and complexity of the ECU and programming.
But might offer a glimpse into the future.

A popular tuner for the S1000rr does offer a unique option for that particular bike.
He actually purchased an ECU that was used on a S1000rr test/race bike and used that to get the programming for “his” tune.
So you are actually getting a tune initially developed by BMW.

His website, info/reading on the tune:

BMWHP.com – 2020 ///M Sport BMW S1000RR – 2020 Track Sport BMW S1000RR

One other interesting aspect in this particular circumstance is that the traction/wheelie control was not set up for the additional power of this tune and was having issues. So the tuner had to make adjustments to those systems so that they worked properly with the new tune/additional power.

 

extreme example in terms of both electronic restrictions and complexity of the ECU and programming.

Uncle grumpy chill out, freedom or speech here on the forum.
This is what i was trying to say.
the smart boxes take control of every sensor and feed the ECU a happy diet, while everything is working to the tune of the processing power .

Modules like rabid bike evo, updatable running off a mass of data that cant fit into an existing limited EMS.

Its just one example where the data spectrum and tunability plugs in.

The hand held editor is just the tool. the smart boxes carry parameters, the science why the changes are made.

In this case , its exactly whats needed, fark the editor, i had codes to clean 3 years ago with TUNE ECU(free), never had a code come up in 3 years.
Most tools become redundant unfortunately.
I could do with a good editor , but not for flashing. What am i going to flash? A pile of unknowns.

 

Well the pc3 is also a piggyback, but doesn't have the same tools as pcV. I'd much rather call the new tech "in line modules".

Here again I think the bottom line is paying for processing.
For example a simple one is retarded timing, it becomes irrelevant because the processing already chopped into the crank sensor, it's chopped tps, spark. You start to see the picture. Power is established from real time modules sniffer and spark can be modulated real time.... This tech is negating flash ware because ECU doesn't have power at all to do anything except run as its told because processing have taken control.

Im not against a hand held editor.


I knew the bren wasn't user friendly but I think cranky don't want to tune his own bike...

The race for parts and adequate tunes gets beaten down by the evo module and others that are like it using processing to change what ever it wants.

Regards.

 

It's winter here so I'm inside hiding from the ice rain.

A good example of processing is the difference between the older 1290 ecu and the newer one that does have more processing on the 02 sensors. It's just not enough. But would you belive that maybe it's the old ecu with an In line 02 module built in. It's parameters are fixed. Chop into the line again and 10x the processing....... What's the difference between what I'm saying and the editors. I don't have to edit, it's doing it by itself.

 

FFS (throws hands in air)

I’m waving my white flag in surrender.

You are right, cors187. Everything you say is correct and there is no other way.

thank you

I’m done with the thread

 

Everything you say is correct and there is no other way.

cmon man, dont treat it like that, i was only banging the anti purist signal drum. ?

 

Just wanted to share my bad experience with brentuning since I'm currently left with an $800 brick/paperweight. My device somehow got locked up from an update through their own software. I contacted them and apparently they have to send this handheld device to Italy in order to get it unlocked. Not really sure why they can't even unlock a device that they sell for $800. After several more emails and weeks later, they offered to get me a new device under a "goodwill swap" which would cost me $300. Basically they wanted to charge me to replace a device that got locked from THEIR own software to begin with. They got defensive when I called them out on it and didn't offer any acceptable solutions. At no point did they admit fault or offer to fix this without wanting more money. This just clearly shows how little they care about customer service and they're just there to sell overpriced tunes. I don't usually write bad reviews, but businesses like these I simply can't stand. Anyways, just wanted to share my experience so others won't have to waste their money.

Maybe I'll try OFT next since their devices are not locked and they offer free tunes.

 

Brentuning relies heavily on word of mouth and bike forums (especially the S1000RR forum) for their business. I see you're based in the US, and I'm sure you can put more pressure on the company to resolve the matter without having to hand over a cent. Write a personalized letter - keep it objective and focused - to the CEO pleading your case. Follow up by phoning the company, ask to speak to the CEO directly. If the organization tosses you into the scrap heap, consider applying to the small claims Court (or Tribunal, whatever you have in the US). Most company's try to settle before it gets to that point. When all else fails, post your letters/emails, etc and the company's replies onto the forums so we can all learn from your experiences.

 

Was this issue ever resolved?

 

Nope, all they want is more money.

 

That's disappointing.. the community of riders who would use the services of Bren is relatively small and well connected via social media ans forums like this one so one would think they might be more sensitive to that? I would be happy to wager that they have lost a few potential customers because of this thread alone that would add up to multiple times the cost of keeping an existing customer happy. Especially seeing as though their cost to do so is zero? simply a reload to a handheld from my understanding? Tut tut.

 

This, combined with other stories amassing is keeping me away from BrenTune as a consideration for flashing. Agreed with what AlanS65 says....gotta be careful not to piss off customers (that have legitimate concerns) in this day of social media and forums.

 

Thanks for the update. You've convinced me to not spend a cent on Brentune, and I was considering it for a while. I'll be telling everyone I know to reconsider their options when looking at flash tuning.

 

2 sides to every story, I would love to hear more from Brentuning on this as I've been following them for YEARS and this is the first negative post about their shop. Local guy here thousands of miles away had his S1000RR done by them and nothing but praise. They are a godsend to the Subaru community as well as an array of other European platforms.

@ek9hatch00 sorry I'm not taking your side (not taking ANY side) it just seems crazy that a shop like that would not honor your defective unit over $300. Shops have write-offs and "goodwill" accounts they can charge issues like this to so makes me wonder why they would chance bad word to spread especially with social media.

 

DOES ANYONE TRULLY KNOW what the Akropovic calibration changes? No guessing? No assumptions...

yes, infact the dealer can tell you himself.
It has the 1st,2nd,3rd gear restictors disabled, as has been the case since akra map using tune ecu since 2007.
ITs fuel mapping is for akra full system ................

 

most guys in US use oft, but euro guys are using ecu studio. It offers a truckload of settings. No hype on this but apparently is goes onto activate the qiuck shifter and track pack activation for a really low final price... i put a pic up after this of the interface using your own laptop. see it yourself, email them to get the facts staight....

ECU Studio

 

This is incredibly inexpensive compared to OFT and BrenTune here in the US. Nice to have or know of a 3rd option. Comes out to $453 USD shipped to me now here in California! I may try this unit